Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BeginnerDM 06-30-06, 10:12 AM	I'm just looking for books that will make combat more exciting. I do know that a large part of it is my job (being DM) but I'd like some books that are out there that make combat more than "I roll and hit" My preference is Wizard products because so far all the Splat books I've read from other company's seem to be much more powerful than Wizard products (I'm sure there are some that aren't just as well) I'm not looking for new campaign worlds etc like Iron Heroes, just rule suplements for our game.
Dalthbar 06-30-06, 10:58 AM	The way to make _combat_ more exciting is to be as descriptive as you can during the encounter. Be sure to add in feints, dodges, misses, great hits, and other flavorful descriptions. "You hit for 8 points of damage" is nowhere close to as much fun as "As he swings at you, you deflect his sword up high and score a solid hit under his arm". This is "a lot more work" for the DM, but can add a lot of fun to encounters. Also don't hesitate to get creative when someone drops a foe. You can "cut off someone's head" as flavor when you drop them to -20 and it doesn't encroach on a vorpal weapon's territory. It also makes a PC with a x3 crit weapon feel a bit more vindicated when they have descriptively more devastating attacks than someone with a lower crit range.
BeginnerDM 06-30-06, 12:08 PM	Thanks alot. I know decriptions is one area I need to work on I was just wondering if there was rules to do more impressive things in combat. I know Location is very important and providing the PC's with lots of make shift tools. As well as trying to never say "No you can't do that" to a PC. Just wondering if there was some crunch to help with my fluff
Salty_Boy 06-30-06, 01:50 PM	All the crunch you need is right there in the PHB. All the unusual stuff you can do in combat really helps to mix things up. If your players are anything like the ones I have lorded over, they are timid about trying new things in battle. What happens when suddenly the tactics they never use get used on them? Imagine the players' reactions to a group of Bugbears disarming them of their weapons, enemy barbarians spring attacking around the battlefield, or a Goblin Worg-rider tossing a tanglefoot bag so that his fellows have an easier time grappling. Just because the players never mix it up doesn't mean you don't have to, and when you show the players some small examples of all the various possibilities they have open to them, they usually begin to try new things themselves. Perhaps you already do this, I'm not sure, but it has worked for me in the past.
mvincent 06-30-06, 03:47 PM	My preferences: 1) Use maps that have lots of "props" 2) Handle combat quickly (this comes with experience, player help and streamlined procedures) 3) Allow players to do things not covered in the rules. No matter how wild their description of the stunt, it can usually be simulated with a regular movement and/or attack, possibly with a standard +2 "DM's descretion" bonus. 4) Make it tough, especially with spells or scary abilities. Don't feel bad if you dominate, paralyze, knock-out , slow down, de-buff, blind or otherwise incapacitate the PC's. The players will actually enjoy the game more.
SolenVlos 06-30-06, 04:37 PM	4) Make it tough, especially with spells or scary abilities. Don't feel bad if you dominate, paralyze, knock-out , slow down, de-buff, blind or otherwise incapacitate the PC's. The players will actually enjoy the game more. Hell yeah, nothing is more terrifying than when you are de-buffed form the cleric buffs, blinded, disarmed, and knocked prone. really, what can one do when this happen? altough is seems a bad thing, is thrilling. unless you play with a evil DM, like me ī=[ but thatīs funny too..
spyderfreek 06-30-06, 04:58 PM	I am not sure that there is one difinitive source to find fluff and crunch, but I read a lot of old TSR books between gaming sessions and get great ideas for descriptions. I am presently re-reading the avatar triology (wow they were truly written badly) and I am getting some great ideas for PCs I would like to play. The transition that Adon goes through is unwittingly how I have been playing my ranger. Look to novels to help with descriptions. On the other point you brought up, totally be scary and ruthless with your NPCs and monsters. The PCs are probably not going to be nice, so why be nice to them. Use the stuff on them that you want them to use, just be sure you know how to counter it.
The Club 06-30-06, 10:58 PM	If you're really a combat hound, and you're willing to run a campaign light on magic, you might want to check out Iron Heroes (non-WotC). It's a different approach to the game, and it won't be compatible with standard D&D. Still, it can be a lot of fun for a combat-jockey. Check it out. The Club
Malachus 07-01-06, 12:36 AM	You could also try making the environment that much more a part of the combat. I remember for one of my campaigns, I had the PC's fighting pirates while the weather was rough. They had to make checks to be able to swing across from one boat to the other and then as they were fighting, they had to make balance checks every now and then so as to not fall prone as the sea rocked the boat back and forth. I remember one of the PC's failed his check to swing across from his boat to the pirate boat, as well as he failed the reflex save to grab onto the side of the pirate boat. He fell into the water and had to make a climb check to get back up. You can add in new combat maneuvers like feinting, grappling, etc., but using the environment more extensively can create some really memorable encounters.
GhostStepper 07-01-06, 01:27 AM	You can add in new combat maneuvers like feinting, grappling, etc., but using the environment more extensively can create some really memorable encounters. Environment definately spices things up. Try one of the following: - Have a fight take place on floating rocks on a stream of lava underground or in a volcano that the PCs must jump between. - Run a battle on a series of rooftops, with gaps, slopes and hanging closelines for stunts. - The fight can take place on a large raft running through rapids toward a massive waterfall. - have an encounter in a swamp area with different depths of water and plenty of trees and reeds for concealment. - Run an aerial battle between multiple air ships and flying mounts. - Include environmental hazards like deadfalls, pits of acid, spiked walls, giant pendulums, etc, that really give the PCs a chance to use special tactics like bull rush. Theres lots of stuff you can do with the environment and, if anything, the evironment should be atleast as memorable a 'character' as any monster or NPC bad guy.
Malachus 07-01-06, 03:14 AM	Heh, I especially love the idea of aerial battles, so long as everyone is in the air... it'd suck to be the one guy who has to fight from the ground
Zillah 07-01-06, 03:15 AM	what really makes combat fun for me is the excitement of potentially being screwed! usually when a number of monsters is big, even if they are small. descriptions of landscape. of the monster. dialogue during combat from the bad guys. every little thing adds up to be a nice big picture. i say unusual situations=unusual actions
Witchblade 07-01-06, 04:57 PM	Environment As mentioned above. Special Actions Beside environment, use a lot of different things than 'hit and damage'. Grappling, feinting, disarming, tripping, bull rushing, leap attack, magic, area control magic, invisible opponents, monks with stunning fist, etc. Variation in Opponents You should try to use different types of creatures too. Magic wielders, undead, constructs, sneak attackers, etc. Hydras, golems, dragons, and marilith force the party to use different tactics. Dragons, demons, devils, aberrations and fey are also good, because they tend to use a lot of specials. Be Descriptive As mentioned above. Do it Quickly Speed it combat by rolling damage and the attack roll at once or even rolling multiple attacks at once. Let the mages find the right spells in other people's turn. You could get a stopwatch and force every player to act within 1 minute per round. Music You could add music, using a low volume and just instrumental music. Hans Zimmer makes great soundtracks. Multiple Opponents Combat with multiple opponents is usually more exciting than one opponent. Even the boss should usually be accompanied by minions. Out of the Box Use new creatures or even self-invented ones. You could also alter the looks of the standard monsters. For example, last session the party encountered a 9' feet tall roughly humanoid figure with sharp claws and a mouth full of pointy teeth. Beside its giant wings, the most shocking about it was its lack of skin. The creature consisted mainly of muscles and blood and it left a trail of blood everywhere it went. When the party started rending the flesh, it quickly healed. The statistics? A Troll. I just added a flight speed of 2x base speed. That's most of what I can think of at the moment. I'm sure there's more.
William1976 07-01-06, 05:43 PM	I'm just looking for books that will make combat more exciting. I do know that a large part of it is my job (being DM) but I'd like some books that are out there that make combat more than "I roll and hit" My preference is Wizard products because so far all the Splat books I've read from other company's seem to be much more powerful than Wizard products (I'm sure there are some that aren't just as well) I'm not looking for new campaign worlds etc like Iron Heroes, just rule suplements for our game. D&D combat is a absrtract system, that is basically a hit or miss mechanic. They made it simple so that one d20 roll plus a modifier is the core mechanic. So to make combat more exciting is hard and really up to the DM. You can try several thingto help: * Description is key; Taste, smell, sound and general emotion in the combat rolls, make your players feel likre they are in the combat instead of rolling dice. Player A attacks the troll and hits for critical damage with his axe="your axe sings through the air into the trolls leg, the trolls green blood spurts onto your armor and you can taste a coppery flavor on your tongue". * 3-dimentional combat; use a mapboard and D&D minatures. The minatatures make the combat seem more realistic, and it helps show size comparisons. In addition, using a map makes combat more controlled in regard to movement. I never run a D&D game without a map and pieces. It is true that the minatures are expensive, so even glass peices or bottle caps work well. * Music; One of the best things I ever did when running my games was adding music. I never had or knew a DM at the time that used music in there games. When I started DMing about 10 years ago, I started using music and it changed the game. It adds atmosphere and suspense. Especially in combat, the right music will make the players more brave or more happy when a hit is scored and the enemy dies. I had a game once, that because of the heroic music, the player risked his life to try one more attack even though his HP's was 2 and everyone was out or retreating (in D&D combat is a gamble, you hit you win, you get hit you die if your HP's are low), but he succeeded there was a huge roar from the players, it made me happy as a DM. Even with all the "things" you can add to D&D, its is a simple (but structured, which I like) system, there is no parry rolls or blocks. No matter if you have 1 HP or 1000 HP you have the same physical ability to attack do damage. If you are looking for more realistic elements of combat, D&D might not be the game for you or your players. William
dndfencer 07-01-06, 08:12 PM	If you want to make combat more exciting and don't mind unbalancing the game a little you could take out all the special combat action feats (like mantis leap that lets you make a flying attack) and instead just give players rewards for trying cool ideas. For example, a monk with a high jump bonus could try and jump over someone and whack 'em in the back. As a reward perhaps say that the opponent is flat footed unless he succeeds on an opposed dex check with the monk. If the monk fails... you make the rules. The only playing problem is that your players might not like a DM that messes with the rules (I know I wouldn't because I'm such a book worm/powergamer) but if your players have any respect they'll have fun doing all those cool movie star tricks that they always wish that players could do effectivly.
Artector 07-01-06, 08:55 PM	Double post. Ignore.
Artector 07-01-06, 08:55 PM	Out of the Box Use new creatures or even self-invented ones. You could also alter the looks of the standard monsters. For example, last session the party encountered a 9' feet tall roughly humanoid figure with sharp claws and a mouth full of pointy teeth. Beside its giant wings, the most shocking about it was its lack of skin. The creature consisted mainly of muscles and blood and it left a trail of blood everywhere it went. When the party started rending the flesh, it quickly healed. The statistics? A Troll. I just added a flight speed of 2x base speed. That's most of what I can think of at the moment. I'm sure there's more. Very inventive. Now to the thread itself: All those work. Adding description can certainly liven up a game, but remeber it can slow it down too. Be quick and precise. I'd also be cautious about saying "The troll/any creature reels as you cut off its arm". The players in my group would jump over this and demand bonuses. Its fine to use lines like that for "death descriptors" but be careful saying the person was "...smashed in the face by your flail" may result in PC's trying to get him dizzied or blinded.
Witchblade 07-03-06, 10:52 AM	Very inventive. Now to the thread itself: All those work. Adding description can certainly liven up a game, but remeber it can slow it down too. Be quick and precise. I'd also be cautious about saying "The troll/any creature reels as you cut off its arm". The players in my group would jump over this and demand bonuses. Its fine to use lines like that for "death descriptors" but be careful saying the person was "...smashed in the face by your flail" may result in PC's trying to get him dizzied or blinded. Thank you. You're right about naming the monster. The best way to counter this is to place a note with "[creature's new name]" in your MM.
Defensor_Vindex 07-03-06, 11:37 PM	what's really interesting to my player is large scale combat, wars even, but i won't get into that. I also noticed that they like when you take modern ideas and make them Dungeons and Dragons playable, for example, I took a Barge from the Arms and Equipment Guide, and filled it with 40 Ornithopters and armed every goblin pilot with a Wand of Fireball, to make a decent aircraft carrier naval battle. Also, timing battles adds to the tension. For example, when you fight an enemy in a building, that's a normal fight, but what if that building were on fire, and they have the choice of either a) running away and letting their main enemy escape and reassemble his legions, or b) fight the enemy and have the building cave in and crush them to death. Just have fun =)
LordKudzu 07-04-06, 12:38 AM	For me personally, a lot of the fun of the game comes from the flavor. Yes, it is utterly fun to deal 90+ damage to a charging Gargantuan Spider felling it in one blow, but the drow riding on its back blasted me deeper into the massive melee with a fireball to the face. Kaero, my Half-Orc Sorcerer/Barbarian, woke up to find himself face to face with a drow warrior wearing mirrored armor with his pet basilisk. As I'm warring with these two a war is raging around us. My compatriots are executing their parts of the plan as the Battle of Mardoc's Farm continues. I crushed the basilisk only to have most of my face cloven off by a lucky hit from the drow. I buried my greataxe in his chest and drew my dagger. I removed the basilisk's face and stapled it back onto mine and then waded back into melee. It was a few swings back and forth mechanically, but what made the difference was the descriptions and the stress of having to make two or three Fortitude saves per round to resist petrification. Plus, there were exploding silos, mage battles and giant freaking spiders running about to add to the chaos of the battle. It was a memorable evening around the table.
Artector 07-04-06, 09:00 AM	Finally came up with a encounter that needed little description and used the same things my PC's had already been fighting. Karrnathi skeletons. They were being "escorted" by 2 rogues into the tower for the BBEG and the second rogue tripped a pressure plate on the floor which let the skeletons out of storage. The room had a large pit in the middle, a tower on the right corner, the way the PC's wanted to go. And by the pit in the small area linking the storage and the platform with the tower is where the skeletons came out. I'm not sure I can get this accurately without uploading my map (i'd have to scan it first). Anyways there was a choke point for the warforged brute to hold off the skeletons and they had to get out of there or try holding off 500+ karrnathi skeletons. It worked out very well, and with little combat description. The terrain and the enemies made the combat exciting enough.
fatal error 07-04-06, 04:31 PM	If you want to make combat more exciting and don't mind unbalancing the game a little you could take out all the special combat action feats (like mantis leap that lets you make a flying attack) and instead just give players rewards for trying cool ideas. For example, a monk with a high jump bonus could try and jump over someone and whack 'em in the back. As a reward perhaps say that the opponent is flat footed unless he succeeds on an opposed dex check with the monk. If the monk fails... you make the rules. The only playing problem is that your players might not like a DM that messes with the rules (I know I wouldn't because I'm such a book worm/powergamer) but if your players have any respect they'll have fun doing all those cool movie star tricks that they always wish that players could do effectivly. That almost exactly describes Iron Heroes' stunt mechanics, you make an accompanying skill check along with your attack roll and get bonuses depending on what you're trying to do. They have like two or three described with each physical skill, but you're free to make your own. For example, if you're next to a wall, you can make a standing jump check to leap up, bounce off the wall, and land behind your foe, and get to count him as flat-footed if you succeed.