can fortifications on armor and shields stack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

can fortifications on armor and shields stack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TeenageHeat
07-16-07, 04:06 AM hey, my dwarf fighter has a shield with light fortification (25% normal damage from sneak attacks and critical strikes) and his full plate has moderate fortification (75% chance). now i was reading the wording on fortification and it said nowhere that they couldn't stack in the Dungeon Master's Guide and i'm thinking i'm pretty much immune to crits and sneak attacks now. so do they stack or not? and if not, could perhaps my armor be rolled against for preventing it and then a roll for my shield or something? or is it just plain old one outdoing the other and making it obsolete? i need answers guys, an epic fight with a high crit range Blackguard with the stakes as high as 200,000 gold is depending on it. =]
Polaris
07-16-07, 04:29 AM hey, my dwarf fighter has a shield with light fortification (25% normal damage from sneak attacks and critical strikes) and his full plate has moderate fortification (75% chance). now i was reading the wording on fortification and it said nowhere that they couldn't stack in the Dungeon Master's Guide and i'm thinking i'm pretty much immune to crits and sneak attacks now. so do they stack or not? and if not, could perhaps my armor be rolled against for preventing it and then a roll for my shield or something? or is it just plain old one outdoing the other and making it obsolete? i need answers guys, an epic fight with a high crit range Blackguard with the stakes as high as 200,000 gold is depending on it. =]

The way I read it, and the way I'd handle it in my games (unless and until I found out differently) would be that the two fortifications are independant. That is, for each sneak attack, you'd get two rolls to avoid, one at 75% and one at 25%. For ease of use, I'd go ahead and make you roll an 81 or less on a %ile dice (since the odds of both checks failing is 18.75 or almost 19%).

IMHO there is no way they should linearly stack given that full fortification is a +5 enchantment bonus to armor/shield and light is only +1 (IIRC) and medium is only +3 (IIRC).

-Polaris
Leilond
07-16-07, 04:34 AM The general rules say that two similar effect never stack unless otherwise stated
There's no need to repeat that for every effect

And more important is that
If an interpretation of the rules let you spend A LOT less money for the same effect, you're probably using the wrong interpretation

A "heavy fortification armor" costs 36.000 gp
A "medium fortification armor" costs 16.000 gp
A "light fortification shield" cost 4.000 gp

You're gaining the benefit of 36.000 gp spending only 20.000 gp. This make me suspect there's something wrong

So, by the RAW (first part) and by RAI (second part) they do not stack

I can accept you roll the two fortification.
You roll 75% and if you fail you roll 25%
This make the effective "fortification" equal to 81.125%
Pindar
07-16-07, 08:39 AM I can accept you roll the two fortification.
You roll 75% and if you fail you roll 25%
This make the effective "fortification" equal to 81.125%

I wouldn't allow two rolls, other effects that don't stack won't give you that kind of benefit.

If you had on a chain shirt and had mage armour cast on you on attack wouldn't have to roll twice to beat your AC.

The only advantage I can see to have Fortification on a shield as well as on armour is for when you are attacked out of armour and only have your shield for defense.
Leilond
07-16-07, 08:43 AM I will admit it only because it will be a waste of money, and I never forbit to my players "stupid things"
risner
07-16-07, 12:36 PM (25% normal damage from sneak attacks and critical strikes) and his full plate has moderate fortification (75% chance). now i was reading the wording on fortification and it said nowhere that they couldn't stack in the Dungeon Master's Guide

They overlap for 75% with both (one roll.)

Why did you look for something saying they don't stack?
/boggle

Nothing stacks, so you needed to look for something that says they DO STACK. Looking for something that says they don't stack is going to insure you will nearly always play by incorrect rules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TeenageHeat 07-16-07, 04:06 AM	hey, my dwarf fighter has a shield with light fortification (25% normal damage from sneak attacks and critical strikes) and his full plate has moderate fortification (75% chance). now i was reading the wording on fortification and it said nowhere that they couldn't stack in the Dungeon Master's Guide and i'm thinking i'm pretty much immune to crits and sneak attacks now. so do they stack or not? and if not, could perhaps my armor be rolled against for preventing it and then a roll for my shield or something? or is it just plain old one outdoing the other and making it obsolete? i need answers guys, an epic fight with a high crit range Blackguard with the stakes as high as 200,000 gold is depending on it. =]
Polaris 07-16-07, 04:29 AM	hey, my dwarf fighter has a shield with light fortification (25% normal damage from sneak attacks and critical strikes) and his full plate has moderate fortification (75% chance). now i was reading the wording on fortification and it said nowhere that they couldn't stack in the Dungeon Master's Guide and i'm thinking i'm pretty much immune to crits and sneak attacks now. so do they stack or not? and if not, could perhaps my armor be rolled against for preventing it and then a roll for my shield or something? or is it just plain old one outdoing the other and making it obsolete? i need answers guys, an epic fight with a high crit range Blackguard with the stakes as high as 200,000 gold is depending on it. =] The way I read it, and the way I'd handle it in my games (unless and until I found out differently) would be that the two fortifications are independant. That is, for each sneak attack, you'd get two rolls to avoid, one at 75% and one at 25%. For ease of use, I'd go ahead and make you roll an 81 or less on a %ile dice (since the odds of both checks failing is 18.75 or almost 19%). IMHO there is no way they should linearly stack given that full fortification is a +5 enchantment bonus to armor/shield and light is only +1 (IIRC) and medium is only +3 (IIRC). -Polaris
Leilond 07-16-07, 04:34 AM	The general rules say that two similar effect never stack unless otherwise stated There's no need to repeat that for every effect And more important is that If an interpretation of the rules let you spend A LOT less money for the same effect, you're probably using the wrong interpretation A "heavy fortification armor" costs 36.000 gp A "medium fortification armor" costs 16.000 gp A "light fortification shield" cost 4.000 gp You're gaining the benefit of 36.000 gp spending only 20.000 gp. This make me suspect there's something wrong So, by the RAW (first part) and by RAI (second part) they do not stack I can accept you roll the two fortification. You roll 75% and if you fail you roll 25% This make the effective "fortification" equal to 81.125%
Pindar 07-16-07, 08:39 AM	I can accept you roll the two fortification. You roll 75% and if you fail you roll 25% This make the effective "fortification" equal to 81.125% I wouldn't allow two rolls, other effects that don't stack won't give you that kind of benefit. If you had on a chain shirt and had mage armour cast on you on attack wouldn't have to roll twice to beat your AC. The only advantage I can see to have Fortification on a shield as well as on armour is for when you are attacked out of armour and only have your shield for defense.
Leilond 07-16-07, 08:43 AM	I will admit it only because it will be a waste of money, and I never forbit to my players "stupid things"
risner 07-16-07, 12:36 PM	(25% normal damage from sneak attacks and critical strikes) and his full plate has moderate fortification (75% chance). now i was reading the wording on fortification and it said nowhere that they couldn't stack in the Dungeon Master's Guide They overlap for 75% with both (one roll.) Why did you look for something saying they don't stack? /boggle Nothing stacks, so you needed to look for something that says they DO STACK. Looking for something that says they don't stack is going to insure you will nearly always play by incorrect rules.