Can I use a spell trigger item if I have the spell as a spell-like ability? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can I use a spell trigger item if I have the spell as a spell-like ability? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
celestialkin
10-07-07, 12:10 AM Hey guys. I need some help.

On page 213 of the DMG under spell trigger it says "Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.".

My question is: If I can cast a spell as a spell-like ability, can I use a wand charged with that spell?

I am planning to play a comical Kobolds ate my baby! styled kobold tomorrow, and I want to know if he can use a Wand of Magic Missile (aka. his "boom boom stick"), since he was already going to take the Draconic Rite of Passage (RotD) to get a daily use of Magic Missile.

If you can, please reference a book/page where I can find this information, so I can show it to my DM.

Thank you all in advance!
Dracomorph
10-07-07, 01:12 AM I'm afraid that, by the rules, the spell-like ability doesn't help.

If you think about it, it makes sense that it doesn't: a spell has all sorts of restrictions and requirements that a spell-like ability doesn't have, e.g. verbal, somatic, or material components, whereas a spell-like ability is more like a natural talent or capability, more like double-jointedness than spellcasting.

Of course, your DM can houserule otherwise, and you might be able to convince him to do so without too much trouble.

Also, Kobolds Ate My Baby! is an awesome, awesome game.
Dheran
10-07-07, 12:29 PM Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are spells and magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). How much are spell-like abilities "very much like spells"? The core rules leave this ambiguous.a spell has all sorts of restrictions and requirements that a spell-like ability doesn't have, e.g. verbal, somatic, or material components Note that a spell trigger item doesn't have all these restrictions, merely "a single word that must be spoken", so this argument doesn't hold water.Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. Is a spell-like ability on a spell-like ability list sufficiently like a spell on a spell list?
spell-like abilities that generate the relevant effect meet the requirements for specific spell knowledge. If a spell-like ability meets the requirements for spellcasting knowledge necessary to enter a prestige class, it makes sense that it also meets the requirements for spellcasting knowledge necessary to use a spell trigger item containing that spell.

Following the clarification in Complete Arcane, this wand use seems legitimate.
Dracomorph
10-07-07, 01:56 PM No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell.

How does a spell-like ability grant special knowledge of spellcasting? Do ogre mages go to arcane colleges to learn how to use their spell-like abilities?

Also, that quote from the CA uses prestige class entry as an example, and probably does not apply in this case since spell trigger items don't require knowledge of a spell, just that it be on the character's spell list. Spell-like abilities are not part of a character's spell list, thus that character does not meet activation requirements for spell trigger items as if they were.
Dheran
10-07-07, 08:33 PM spell trigger items don't require knowledge of a spell, just that it be on the character's spell list. Spell-like abilities are not part of a character's spell list, thus that character does not meet activation requirements for spell trigger items as if they were. No, spell-like abilities are instead on a character's spell-like ability list, andSpell-like abilities, as the name implies, are spells and magical abilities that are very much like spells. How much is "very much" here? In Complete Arcane they rule that "able to cast (a specific spell)" is met by being able to make use of the analogous spell-like ability. Using similar reasoning, I think it's fair that specific knowledge of the analogous spell-like ability should meet the requirement for specific spellcasting knowledge of that particular spell that an appropriate character would know.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
celestialkin 10-07-07, 12:10 AM	Hey guys. I need some help. On page 213 of the DMG under spell trigger it says "Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.". My question is: If I can cast a spell as a spell-like ability, can I use a wand charged with that spell? I am planning to play a comical Kobolds ate my baby! styled kobold tomorrow, and I want to know if he can use a Wand of Magic Missile (aka. his "boom boom stick"), since he was already going to take the Draconic Rite of Passage (RotD) to get a daily use of Magic Missile. If you can, please reference a book/page where I can find this information, so I can show it to my DM. Thank you all in advance!
Dracomorph 10-07-07, 01:12 AM	I'm afraid that, by the rules, the spell-like ability doesn't help. If you think about it, it makes sense that it doesn't: a spell has all sorts of restrictions and requirements that a spell-like ability doesn't have, e.g. verbal, somatic, or material components, whereas a spell-like ability is more like a natural talent or capability, more like double-jointedness than spellcasting. Of course, your DM can houserule otherwise, and you might be able to convince him to do so without too much trouble. Also, Kobolds Ate My Baby! is an awesome, awesome game.
Dheran 10-07-07, 12:29 PM	Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are spells and magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). How much are spell-like abilities "very much like spells"? The core rules leave this ambiguous.a spell has all sorts of restrictions and requirements that a spell-like ability doesn't have, e.g. verbal, somatic, or material components Note that a spell trigger item doesn't have all these restrictions, merely "a single word that must be spoken", so this argument doesn't hold water.Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. Is a spell-like ability on a spell-like ability list sufficiently like a spell on a spell list? spell-like abilities that generate the relevant effect meet the requirements for specific spell knowledge. If a spell-like ability meets the requirements for spellcasting knowledge necessary to enter a prestige class, it makes sense that it also meets the requirements for spellcasting knowledge necessary to use a spell trigger item containing that spell. Following the clarification in Complete Arcane, this wand use seems legitimate.
Dracomorph 10-07-07, 01:56 PM	No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. How does a spell-like ability grant special knowledge of spellcasting? Do ogre mages go to arcane colleges to learn how to use their spell-like abilities? Also, that quote from the CA uses prestige class entry as an example, and probably does not apply in this case since spell trigger items don't require knowledge of a spell, just that it be on the character's spell list. Spell-like abilities are not part of a character's spell list, thus that character does not meet activation requirements for spell trigger items as if they were.
Dheran 10-07-07, 08:33 PM	spell trigger items don't require knowledge of a spell, just that it be on the character's spell list. Spell-like abilities are not part of a character's spell list, thus that character does not meet activation requirements for spell trigger items as if they were. No, spell-like abilities are instead on a character's spell-like ability list, andSpell-like abilities, as the name implies, are spells and magical abilities that are very much like spells. How much is "very much" here? In Complete Arcane they rule that "able to cast (a specific spell)" is met by being able to make use of the analogous spell-like ability. Using similar reasoning, I think it's fair that specific knowledge of the analogous spell-like ability should meet the requirement for specific spellcasting knowledge of that particular spell that an appropriate character would know.