Can shocking grasp stack w/unarmed attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can shocking grasp stack w/unarmed attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sarmoon
11-19-05, 12:17 AM Difficult to tell if this has been answered yet, but here goes. Can a monk/sorceror deliver a shocking grasp through his unarmed attack? Also, are the attacks separated as to which one delivers damage based on the targets touch armor class vs. it's full blown AC (In the case where the to hit roll would strike the touch armor class but not the full AC)? Thanks in advance for help.
SALDAR
11-19-05, 12:30 AM You can use the monk's unarmed strike to deliver a touch spell. In order to do so you must cast the spell in one round and hold the charge. Then in the next round you make your unarmed strike attack against the opponent's normal AC. When doing this you are no longer trying to just touch your opponent, you are trying to hit him with the unarmed strike so the touch AC is no longer a factor. If the attack misses then you do not discharge the spell and it is considered to still be held until you actually hit your opponent or you cast another spell or dismiss the held spell. See Holding the Charge, PHB pg 141.
Thorak
11-19-05, 08:06 AM Heck, you don't even need Monk levels.

My Cleric of Garagos used to throw his weapons away as he charged in to battle, and then just lay about him bare-handed. Charging up an Inflict or two beforehand did wonders. It was an amusing character concept, though he died at level 3, and I'm not sure how much longer it would really have worked for.

He didn't even die in battle. Damn traps.
Zherog
11-19-05, 08:21 AM Charging up an Inflict or two beforehand did wonders.

You can't "charge up" more than one spell at a time. ;)
ShinAkuma2
11-19-05, 09:06 AM Heck, you don't even need Monk levels.

My Cleric of Garagos used to throw his weapons away as he charged in to battle, and then just lay about him bare-handed. Charging up an Inflict or two beforehand did wonders. It was an amusing character concept, though he died at level 3, and I'm not sure how much longer it would really have worked for.

He didn't even die in battle. Damn traps.

Also, in that case, your unarmed strikes would provoke as normal. Could be dangerous without Improved Unarmed Strike or Spiked Gauntlets.
Thorak
11-19-05, 11:07 AM You can't "charge up" more than one spell at a time. ;)
Nuts, missed that.

Still looks neat, though. Only got to pull the trick off once, put it sure surprised the heck out of the goblin whose head exploded when he tried to step past the unarmed cleric.
Also, in that case, your unarmed strikes would provoke as normal. Could be dangerous without Improved Unarmed Strike or Spiked Gauntlets.
Which is why Karev's first feat was IUS.

Useful for tavern brawling and goblin-head-exploding.

Yes, it was a concept character, no, it wasn't exactly optimized. Fun though.
Someone
11-19-05, 12:18 PM Actually, a charged touch spell is an "armed" unarmed attack, so you won't provoke AoOs for attacking with it.

Also, I was unaware you could hold the charge of an inflict spell. Cool concept, mind you, I just didn't think of the inflict spells as touch spells.
Nom
11-19-05, 04:44 PM A melee touch attack can be used in two modes:

'touch' mode: you make a melee touch attack to touch the target and disarm the spell. This counts as an armed attack.

'piggyback' mode: you make a normal attack (unarmed strike or natural weapon). If the attack hits (normal AC), the spell discharges as well as the normal strike damage. AoOs are as usual for the normal attack.

In either case, if you miss then the charge is still held. If you cast another spell or otherwise use the 'touching' hand/appendage then the held spell discharges.
SALDAR
11-19-05, 09:38 PM Actually, a charged touch spell is an "armed" unarmed attack, so you won't provoke AoOs for attacking with it.

'touch' mode: you make a melee touch attack to touch the target and disarm the spell. This counts as an armed attack.
It is an armed attack only on the round that you cast the spell. If you hold the charge and try to make an unarmed attack in later rounds then you provoke an AoO if the attack would normally provoke.
Nom
11-19-05, 10:29 PM It is an armed attack only on the round that you cast the spell. If you hold the charge and try to make an unarmed attack in later rounds then you provoke an AoO if the attack would normally provoke.I think you're a bit confused.

From PH pg 140-142, you can make a touch attack in the same round as you cast the spell (pg 140). "Touching an opponent is considered an armed attack and doesn't provoke AoOs" (pg 141, para 2).

If you still have the charge in later rounds, you gain extra options. "You can continue to make touch attacks round after round" (pg 141, para 3). Nothing about this negates the previous statement about not provoking AoOs.

You also have the option of making a "normal unarmed attack while holding a charge" (pg 141-142, last/first sentence). "In this case, you aren't considered armed and provoke AoOs as normal" (pg 142, 2nd sentence). The qualifier about AoOs only applies to piggyback attacks, not to touch attacks.

Summary:

Touch attacks to deliver spells never provoke an AoO.

Piggyback attacks to deliver spells provoke based on the base attack.

You can use a touch attack on the round the spell is cast or while holding the charge. You can only use a piggyback attack while holding the charge.
Thorak
11-20-05, 01:01 AM Actually, a charged touch spell is an "armed" unarmed attack, so you won't provoke AoOs for attacking with it.

Also, I was unaware you could hold the charge of an inflict spell. Cool concept, mind you, I just didn't think of the inflict spells as touch spells.
Neither did I, until about two months ago, when I noticed it on reading through and thinking "why would I ever bother, since I could take ranged combat spells that deal more damage?"

And then I realized two things. Holding the charge means I can cast it minutes, or hours, before battle. No time limit, whatsoever, I just can't touch anyone else without releasing it into them or cast another spell without losing it.

And that punching counts as touching, and thus releases the charge.

And, having watched Sin City recently, I came up with a neat character concept very loosely based on Marv from Sin City. Loosely based in that he was borderline psychotic, revelled in violence, and while noble in some ways, was brutally vicious in others.

Let me tell you, dealing 17 damage on an AoO just after having launched my club at, and killing, a goblin a few feet away, at level 2, was awesome. Sure, the barbarian did more damage than me, but he didn't have the style.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sarmoon 11-19-05, 12:17 AM	Difficult to tell if this has been answered yet, but here goes. Can a monk/sorceror deliver a shocking grasp through his unarmed attack? Also, are the attacks separated as to which one delivers damage based on the targets touch armor class vs. it's full blown AC (In the case where the to hit roll would strike the touch armor class but not the full AC)? Thanks in advance for help.
SALDAR 11-19-05, 12:30 AM	You can use the monk's unarmed strike to deliver a touch spell. In order to do so you must cast the spell in one round and hold the charge. Then in the next round you make your unarmed strike attack against the opponent's normal AC. When doing this you are no longer trying to just touch your opponent, you are trying to hit him with the unarmed strike so the touch AC is no longer a factor. If the attack misses then you do not discharge the spell and it is considered to still be held until you actually hit your opponent or you cast another spell or dismiss the held spell. See Holding the Charge, PHB pg 141.
Thorak 11-19-05, 08:06 AM	Heck, you don't even need Monk levels. My Cleric of Garagos used to throw his weapons away as he charged in to battle, and then just lay about him bare-handed. Charging up an Inflict or two beforehand did wonders. It was an amusing character concept, though he died at level 3, and I'm not sure how much longer it would really have worked for. He didn't even die in battle. Damn traps.
Zherog 11-19-05, 08:21 AM	Charging up an Inflict or two beforehand did wonders. You can't "charge up" more than one spell at a time. ;)
ShinAkuma2 11-19-05, 09:06 AM	Heck, you don't even need Monk levels. My Cleric of Garagos used to throw his weapons away as he charged in to battle, and then just lay about him bare-handed. Charging up an Inflict or two beforehand did wonders. It was an amusing character concept, though he died at level 3, and I'm not sure how much longer it would really have worked for. He didn't even die in battle. Damn traps. Also, in that case, your unarmed strikes would provoke as normal. Could be dangerous without Improved Unarmed Strike or Spiked Gauntlets.
Thorak 11-19-05, 11:07 AM	You can't "charge up" more than one spell at a time. ;) Nuts, missed that. Still looks neat, though. Only got to pull the trick off once, put it sure surprised the heck out of the goblin whose head exploded when he tried to step past the unarmed cleric. Also, in that case, your unarmed strikes would provoke as normal. Could be dangerous without Improved Unarmed Strike or Spiked Gauntlets. Which is why Karev's first feat was IUS. Useful for tavern brawling and goblin-head-exploding. Yes, it was a concept character, no, it wasn't exactly optimized. Fun though.
Someone 11-19-05, 12:18 PM	Actually, a charged touch spell is an "armed" unarmed attack, so you won't provoke AoOs for attacking with it. Also, I was unaware you could hold the charge of an inflict spell. Cool concept, mind you, I just didn't think of the inflict spells as touch spells.
Nom 11-19-05, 04:44 PM	A melee touch attack can be used in two modes: 'touch' mode: you make a melee touch attack to touch the target and disarm the spell. This counts as an armed attack. 'piggyback' mode: you make a normal attack (unarmed strike or natural weapon). If the attack hits (normal AC), the spell discharges as well as the normal strike damage. AoOs are as usual for the normal attack. In either case, if you miss then the charge is still held. If you cast another spell or otherwise use the 'touching' hand/appendage then the held spell discharges.
SALDAR 11-19-05, 09:38 PM	Actually, a charged touch spell is an "armed" unarmed attack, so you won't provoke AoOs for attacking with it. 'touch' mode: you make a melee touch attack to touch the target and disarm the spell. This counts as an armed attack. It is an armed attack only on the round that you cast the spell. If you hold the charge and try to make an unarmed attack in later rounds then you provoke an AoO if the attack would normally provoke.
Nom 11-19-05, 10:29 PM	It is an armed attack only on the round that you cast the spell. If you hold the charge and try to make an unarmed attack in later rounds then you provoke an AoO if the attack would normally provoke.I think you're a bit confused. From PH pg 140-142, you can make a touch attack in the same round as you cast the spell (pg 140). "Touching an opponent is considered an armed attack and doesn't provoke AoOs" (pg 141, para 2). If you still have the charge in later rounds, you gain extra options. "You can continue to make touch attacks round after round" (pg 141, para 3). Nothing about this negates the previous statement about not provoking AoOs. You also have the option of making a "normal unarmed attack while holding a charge" (pg 141-142, last/first sentence). "In this case, you aren't considered armed and provoke AoOs as normal" (pg 142, 2nd sentence). The qualifier about AoOs only applies to piggyback attacks, not to touch attacks. Summary: Touch attacks to deliver spells never provoke an AoO. Piggyback attacks to deliver spells provoke based on the base attack. You can use a touch attack on the round the spell is cast or while holding the charge. You can only use a piggyback attack while holding the charge.
Thorak 11-20-05, 01:01 AM	Actually, a charged touch spell is an "armed" unarmed attack, so you won't provoke AoOs for attacking with it. Also, I was unaware you could hold the charge of an inflict spell. Cool concept, mind you, I just didn't think of the inflict spells as touch spells. Neither did I, until about two months ago, when I noticed it on reading through and thinking "why would I ever bother, since I could take ranged combat spells that deal more damage?" And then I realized two things. Holding the charge means I can cast it minutes, or hours, before battle. No time limit, whatsoever, I just can't touch anyone else without releasing it into them or cast another spell without losing it. And that punching counts as touching, and thus releases the charge. And, having watched Sin City recently, I came up with a neat character concept very loosely based on Marv from Sin City. Loosely based in that he was borderline psychotic, revelled in violence, and while noble in some ways, was brutally vicious in others. Let me tell you, dealing 17 damage on an AoO just after having launched my club at, and killing, a goblin a few feet away, at level 2, was awesome. Sure, the barbarian did more damage than me, but he didn't have the style.