Can't decide [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can't decide [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kn1ves
09-03-07, 09:32 PM My Beguiler had our Cleric graft a weapon modification to him a couple sessions ago. It's a dagger in the form of a set of talons on his right wrist. I know that I'll be getting the Smoking and Defending enhancements on it but there's one more thing I'm not sure about. I can't decide between an Orb of Blinding or the Everbright enhancement on the weapon. The Everbright enhancement will cost 2,000 gp and will let me activate it twice a day to blind everyone within 20 ft. (Reflex DC: 13). The Orb of Blinding costs 5,000 gp and will let me activate it three times a day to blind everyone in a 15 ft. cone (Fortitude DC: 16). Has anyone used either of these before? How useful are they and is one more worthwhile than the other?
Kouk
09-03-07, 10:27 PM I'm not familiar with the "Smoking" enchantment, but I will try to point some things out.

First, both of the ranges of these blinding effects (15ft and 20ft) are fairly short, so that means your character will have to be pretty close to melee range to use them. This of course can be dangerous for a Beguiler.

If something attempts to blind everything in 20ft of you, then this would probably include your allies that may be nearby. This means to use the item you would have to run around the battlefield to position yourself in such a way as to only hit the enemies, which may leave you far from your allies. A cone would be significantly easier to aim while nearby friends.

According to the Magic Item Compendium, Everbright actually has a DC of 14. It also immunizes your weapon from acid or rust damage.

The Orb of Blinding had a body slot of "held", which would mean you have to actually hold it to use it. So, you will need a free hand, otherwise you will spend time taking it out and putting it away (though I probably would allow a chain necklace or something to hold it in easy reach if you had a free hand). Fort save DC 16.

Your intended targets will often be the ones who can hurt you very badly, and the ones you need to be in melee with. This will often be large, possibly stupid creatures with immense Strength and Constitution scores. As you go up in levels, many many creatures have incredibly good Fortitude saves (a bit of a design flaw perhaps). Take a CR2 Ogre as an example: Fort +6, Ref +0, Will +1. Another example, the CR 12 Purple Worm has Fort +17, Ref +8, Will +4. Most any kind of Dragon has Reflex as its worst save.

Fortitude saves tend to be easier for "monsters" to make than any other kind of saving throw. As their bodies get bigger and tougher, their dexterities tend to stay low. Will saves are almost always their weakest point, but Reflex is a good second choice.

Against opponents who pose a danger to you but also have high Reflex saves (higher than their Fort saves) you will probably have trouble getting within range of them as they may very well focus on mobility or staying out of reach (or just flying).

I would recommend the Everbright enchantment over the Orb of Blinding. Using the effect does not require anything special to be in your hand, Reflex saves are generally easier for a monster to fail, and you also get the fairly nice benefit of a weapon immune to acid (such as from certain slimes which dissolve weapons that hit them) or rust (such as from rust monsters or rust ray spells). You should be able to get at least a few enemies with the burst when you move around the battlefield perhaps to flank with allies, and if you make sure they are aware of your plan they should be able to position themselves well enough. It is also significantly cheaper and is a flat gold cost rather than a + equivalent enchantment.

Ideally, I would suggest using spells or items which focus on Will saves, as that is often a monster's weakest point (though a caster's strongest point). Reflex is a decent middle ground though.

I wouldn't particularly count on either item having a tremendous success rate however, perhaps 50/50 at best, and the chance of success will decline as you go up in levels and fight stronger opponents. At least the Everbright enchantment will make your weapon look nice though :D
Kn1ves
09-04-07, 01:35 AM That was a lot of help Kouk. Well when I had these items in mind I was thinking of fairly cheap things I could buy that would not only in everyday adventuring but also in infiltration and burgeling of large estates and castles. It's kind of what my character is built around. I was trying to figure out what would be the best item to have if being chased by half a dozen guards or more and something that could blind several people at once seemed like a good idea. But once again your information was really helpful.
Kouk
09-04-07, 03:25 AM No problem. Don't forget about things like Greater Invisibility Wands or Scrolls though (I don't know if that is on the Beguiler list however). Those should have a 100% success rate, but are subject to Dispelling.

EDIT: Humanoids often have wildly varying saves, just like PCs can, because of class levels. If you consider that your run-of-the-mill guard is a Warrior or a Fighter though, Fortitude would still be their best saves. Against the odd court Wizard, Reflex is still a decent choice.

Of course, this also depends on how evil your DM is... If he decides that there are actually half a dozen Assassins guarding something then you are in a tight spot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kn1ves 09-03-07, 09:32 PM	My Beguiler had our Cleric graft a weapon modification to him a couple sessions ago. It's a dagger in the form of a set of talons on his right wrist. I know that I'll be getting the Smoking and Defending enhancements on it but there's one more thing I'm not sure about. I can't decide between an Orb of Blinding or the Everbright enhancement on the weapon. The Everbright enhancement will cost 2,000 gp and will let me activate it twice a day to blind everyone within 20 ft. (Reflex DC: 13). The Orb of Blinding costs 5,000 gp and will let me activate it three times a day to blind everyone in a 15 ft. cone (Fortitude DC: 16). Has anyone used either of these before? How useful are they and is one more worthwhile than the other?
Kouk 09-03-07, 10:27 PM	I'm not familiar with the "Smoking" enchantment, but I will try to point some things out. First, both of the ranges of these blinding effects (15ft and 20ft) are fairly short, so that means your character will have to be pretty close to melee range to use them. This of course can be dangerous for a Beguiler. If something attempts to blind everything in 20ft of you, then this would probably include your allies that may be nearby. This means to use the item you would have to run around the battlefield to position yourself in such a way as to only hit the enemies, which may leave you far from your allies. A cone would be significantly easier to aim while nearby friends. According to the Magic Item Compendium, Everbright actually has a DC of 14. It also immunizes your weapon from acid or rust damage. The Orb of Blinding had a body slot of "held", which would mean you have to actually hold it to use it. So, you will need a free hand, otherwise you will spend time taking it out and putting it away (though I probably would allow a chain necklace or something to hold it in easy reach if you had a free hand). Fort save DC 16. Your intended targets will often be the ones who can hurt you very badly, and the ones you need to be in melee with. This will often be large, possibly stupid creatures with immense Strength and Constitution scores. As you go up in levels, many many creatures have incredibly good Fortitude saves (a bit of a design flaw perhaps). Take a CR2 Ogre as an example: Fort +6, Ref +0, Will +1. Another example, the CR 12 Purple Worm has Fort +17, Ref +8, Will +4. Most any kind of Dragon has Reflex as its worst save. Fortitude saves tend to be easier for "monsters" to make than any other kind of saving throw. As their bodies get bigger and tougher, their dexterities tend to stay low. Will saves are almost always their weakest point, but Reflex is a good second choice. Against opponents who pose a danger to you but also have high Reflex saves (higher than their Fort saves) you will probably have trouble getting within range of them as they may very well focus on mobility or staying out of reach (or just flying). I would recommend the Everbright enchantment over the Orb of Blinding. Using the effect does not require anything special to be in your hand, Reflex saves are generally easier for a monster to fail, and you also get the fairly nice benefit of a weapon immune to acid (such as from certain slimes which dissolve weapons that hit them) or rust (such as from rust monsters or rust ray spells). You should be able to get at least a few enemies with the burst when you move around the battlefield perhaps to flank with allies, and if you make sure they are aware of your plan they should be able to position themselves well enough. It is also significantly cheaper and is a flat gold cost rather than a + equivalent enchantment. Ideally, I would suggest using spells or items which focus on Will saves, as that is often a monster's weakest point (though a caster's strongest point). Reflex is a decent middle ground though. I wouldn't particularly count on either item having a tremendous success rate however, perhaps 50/50 at best, and the chance of success will decline as you go up in levels and fight stronger opponents. At least the Everbright enchantment will make your weapon look nice though :D
Kn1ves 09-04-07, 01:35 AM	That was a lot of help Kouk. Well when I had these items in mind I was thinking of fairly cheap things I could buy that would not only in everyday adventuring but also in infiltration and burgeling of large estates and castles. It's kind of what my character is built around. I was trying to figure out what would be the best item to have if being chased by half a dozen guards or more and something that could blind several people at once seemed like a good idea. But once again your information was really helpful.
Kouk 09-04-07, 03:25 AM	No problem. Don't forget about things like Greater Invisibility Wands or Scrolls though (I don't know if that is on the Beguiler list however). Those should have a 100% success rate, but are subject to Dispelling. EDIT: Humanoids often have wildly varying saves, just like PCs can, because of class levels. If you consider that your run-of-the-mill guard is a Warrior or a Fighter though, Fortitude would still be their best saves. Against the odd court Wizard, Reflex is still a decent choice. Of course, this also depends on how evil your DM is... If he decides that there are actually half a dozen Assassins guarding something then you are in a tight spot.