Can't use spoken command words [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can't use spoken command words [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fridesgerte
10-01-07, 10:11 PM My PC (Level 12 Greatsword fighter) is mute, and can't use any magic item, weapon or armor feature that requires a spoken command word to activate. For example, she can't control the party's flying carpet because it uses verbal directions.

What are her best choices for magical enhancements to armor and weapons? Cost is not much of an object. She's soon (hopefully) going to be in a position to replace a powerfully enchanted greatsword (long story), and either replace or improve her +3 plate.
Kouk
10-01-07, 11:19 PM Actually, I recall that there was a collar of some sort which granted speech to animals and creatures that normally can't speak. I'm not sure which book it is in, maybe Masters of the Wild? Don't remember.

But anyway, a Fighter doesn't suffer much from not activating Verbal Command items. Basically all you need is a really magical weapon and really magical armor.

It doesn't seem like much of a problem to have items that normally require a standard verbal command to get some other sort of Command (such as Mental or Manipulation) perhaps for a slight increase in price though.

Instead of a Command Word to activate the Flaming sword, you could just have a button, or twist the pommel, or something like that.
RollaD20
10-01-07, 11:34 PM buy a crystal mask of languages, it allows you to (quote) speak, read, and understand 5 different languages as designated by the maker at the time of creation(/quote)
either that, or have your party as a group create their own inter-group sign language and invest 1-2 skill point for it (depending if speak language is a class skill or not) that way you can command it to activate, with your hand signals. which if im not mistaken does qualify for this since drow sign language does.
Salla
10-01-07, 11:36 PM Get someone to cast Regenerate on your vocal cords?
RollaD20
10-01-07, 11:45 PM no- being mute doesnt mean that you dont have the cords or that they have been removed although these would cause a condition that causes you to be mute in a sense.
but no, being mute in this case from the sound of it is that the cords are there but they either improperly or dont function. it might not be the cords even it might be the voice box but still, same concept.
or worst case scenario, the caracter has literally lost his tongue.
StruckingFuggle
10-02-07, 05:42 PM Still nothing a Regenerate spell can't fix once you pick up the scratch. In a logical and internally consistent DnD world, a sufficiently leveled PC has no excuse for a debilitating disability like muteness barring Divine Intervention or deliberate and willful choice.
fridesgerte
10-02-07, 08:07 PM To StruckingFuggle: In a sense it is a willful choice. She's mute because she agreed to give up her ability to speak (for a year and a day--11 months left) in exchange for being released from a blood oath to an evil Fey (really stupid thing to do, but see my signature <grin>). And she can't just not speak, she can't make *any* intelligible sounds.

Generally, about being mute: If you have no tongue, you can still make sounds, they just are inarticulate--grunts and similar noises: If you have no vocal cords, or the cords don't work, you can still shape words with your lips, and maybe even produce faint whispery sounds--anyone else ever had really bad laryngitis? As for my PC, she doesn't even *try* to speak, not since the ritual in her Temple that sealed the the bargain.

To Kouk: Thanks, I had not thought of getting a mental or manipulation control instead of a command word. If it's possible, that might work, especially for weapon features (Shock and Shocking Blast are high on her wish list).

To RollaD20: I didn't know that the Drow could use their sign language for command words. My PC is hoping to learn a true sign language soon. My DM let her order a book of Sign Language to learn from when she couldn't find anyone to teach her, but it isn't ready yet, and she may not have the skill points available when it is. Of course he still might not let her use sign for this, he's made a point of finding ways for being mute to be "inconvenient."

BTW, How do you quote from more than one message at a time? I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just cut and pasted.
Koplow92
10-02-07, 09:20 PM Actually, I recall that there was a collar of some sort which granted speech to animals and creatures that normally can't speak. I'm not sure which book it is in, maybe Masters of the Wild? Don't remember.

Yep. I have Masters of the Wild. The item is called the "Torc of Animal Speech". "Its wearer can use speak with animals effect at will.

Maybe an item like that can be crafted to have a "de-mute" or "regain speech" effect.
StruckingFuggle
10-03-07, 12:56 AM BTW, How do you quote from more than one message at a time? I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just cut and pasted.

I open all the posts I want to quote in their own tabs and then copy & paste.
Rulebook
10-03-07, 09:15 AM quit trying to find ways to weasle out of your bargian then!

my suggestion would be to get items with commands that arent vocal in nature. while it always says spoken command word, i dont think any of the rules specificaly say a command HAS to be a spoken word.
Dheran
10-03-07, 03:50 PM i dont think any of the rules specificaly say a command HAS to be a spoken word. Yes, the basic definition requires it:Command Word

If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
Steevo
10-03-07, 04:18 PM My PC (Level 12 Greatsword fighter) is mute, and can't use any magic item, weapon or armor feature that requires a spoken command word to activate. For example, she can't control the party's flying carpet because it uses verbal directions.

What are her best choices for magical enhancements to armor and weapons? Cost is not much of an object. She's soon (hopefully) going to be in a position to replace a powerfully enchanted greatsword (long story), and either replace or improve her +3 plate.

With regards to non-command activated powers, I would recommend things that are always on regardless, such as Ghost Touch, Keen, Vorpal, Fortification, etc.

If I were your DM, I would happily allow you to get custom made items that activate by other means, for the same cost as normal, since activation is 99% flavour anyway. I would require you to have the item custom made, however, by finding an NPC who can do it, since such alternate activations would not be commonplace. Also, a regular Identify spell would reveal the alternate activation for this item instead of the regular activation, so it's not like someone who stole your weapon would be confused about how to make it work.

Another alternative, assuming your DM is not willing to let you do this, would be to have someone else in the party activate the ability before combat begins. Which works fine assuming you're in an obviously dangerous place like a dungeon or something. Doesn't really help you if you get ambushed on the open road. You might want to ask if the sheath for a flaming sword would be damaged by the flaming ability, though. If not, you can just leave it on all the time.
Platstud
10-03-07, 04:30 PM quit trying to find ways to weasle out of your bargian then!

I don't think the OP was trying to weasel out. Despite the fact that most of the early replies were ways to get around the problem, the OP simply asked what equipment would be best for someone who couldn't speak.
The_Wrath_of_Talos
10-03-07, 05:02 PM Have the party wizard cast ventrilquism and throw his voice to u so he can activate everything for u. Or maybe have a permanent magic mouth spell cast on you with all the command words programed into it. U could always get a pet parrot or raven to do ur talking for u as well.
fridesgerte
10-03-07, 10:01 PM I don't think the OP was trying to weasel out. Despite the fact that most of the early replies were ways to get around the problem, the OP simply asked what equipment would be best for someone who couldn't speak.

Thanks. You're right my PC is not trying to weasel out of the consequences, just be as effective as she can within the contstraints she's accepted.

My real question was which "always on" features for weapons and armor do people think are most useful? Some of the ones I've looked at seem better than others, but I wanted some other opinions.

It seems that every time something like this comes up on the list (muteness, blindness), people jump in to try to "fix" or get around it, even if that's not what the player asked about.

If I were your DM, I would happily allow you to get custom made items that activate by other means, for the same cost as normal, since activation is 99% flavour anyway. I would require you to have the item custom made, however, by finding an NPC who can do it, since such alternate activations would not be commonplace. Also, a regular Identify spell would reveal the alternate activation for this item instead of the regular activation, so it's not like someone who stole your weapon would be confused about how to make it work.

I am going to see if my DM will agree to at least one feature with an alternative activation method (twist hilt of Greatsword for Flaming, for example). When she does get new equipment it will all be purchased as upgrades to existing items, once she sells off a very valuable object she has but no longer wants to use.
RollaD20
10-04-07, 12:57 AM just as a general rule of thumb, if a custom item is made only for a minor effect or for flavor, add 100-1000gp to the cost of the item, but this is just my house rule consult your DM on it before you go ahead with it.

to avoid issue with the sheath taking fire damage, i'd suggest you coat it with alch. frost as that should provide temporary protection. in fact if i am correct i think there is a tool in the MiC that protects against fire damage.
if all else fails, make it a custom sheath out of fire resistant metal or treated leather.
Rulebook
10-04-07, 06:48 AM hmmm... upon reading the discriptions, it really does just say "until the command is given"

that is just vague enough to be deciphered as "possibly a use activated gestural command" to me...

just saying is all
Merestil Haye
10-04-07, 07:10 AM BTW, How do you quote from more than one message at a time? I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just cut and pasted.As you read through the thread, click on the little "+" button to the right of the "quote" button in each post you want to reply to. Then, when you hit "Reply" they'll all be included in the reply window for you, complete with attributions.

hmmm... upon reading the discriptions, it really does just say "until the command is given"

that is just vague enough to be deciphered as "possibly a use activated gestural command" to me...just saying is allIf the item does not require a spoken command it will say so. For example, the Boots of Speed do not require a command word - you activate them by clicking the heels together.

If the DM is willing, get some custom items that have thematically appropriate somatic activations. For example, Winged Boots that activate when you jump while pointing upward with one hand. Stuff like that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fridesgerte 10-01-07, 10:11 PM	My PC (Level 12 Greatsword fighter) is mute, and can't use any magic item, weapon or armor feature that requires a spoken command word to activate. For example, she can't control the party's flying carpet because it uses verbal directions. What are her best choices for magical enhancements to armor and weapons? Cost is not much of an object. She's soon (hopefully) going to be in a position to replace a powerfully enchanted greatsword (long story), and either replace or improve her +3 plate.
Kouk 10-01-07, 11:19 PM	Actually, I recall that there was a collar of some sort which granted speech to animals and creatures that normally can't speak. I'm not sure which book it is in, maybe Masters of the Wild? Don't remember. But anyway, a Fighter doesn't suffer much from not activating Verbal Command items. Basically all you need is a really magical weapon and really magical armor. It doesn't seem like much of a problem to have items that normally require a standard verbal command to get some other sort of Command (such as Mental or Manipulation) perhaps for a slight increase in price though. Instead of a Command Word to activate the Flaming sword, you could just have a button, or twist the pommel, or something like that.
RollaD20 10-01-07, 11:34 PM	buy a crystal mask of languages, it allows you to (quote) speak, read, and understand 5 different languages as designated by the maker at the time of creation(/quote) either that, or have your party as a group create their own inter-group sign language and invest 1-2 skill point for it (depending if speak language is a class skill or not) that way you can command it to activate, with your hand signals. which if im not mistaken does qualify for this since drow sign language does.
Salla 10-01-07, 11:36 PM	Get someone to cast Regenerate on your vocal cords?
RollaD20 10-01-07, 11:45 PM	no- being mute doesnt mean that you dont have the cords or that they have been removed although these would cause a condition that causes you to be mute in a sense. but no, being mute in this case from the sound of it is that the cords are there but they either improperly or dont function. it might not be the cords even it might be the voice box but still, same concept. or worst case scenario, the caracter has literally lost his tongue.
StruckingFuggle 10-02-07, 05:42 PM	Still nothing a Regenerate spell can't fix once you pick up the scratch. In a logical and internally consistent DnD world, a sufficiently leveled PC has no excuse for a debilitating disability like muteness barring Divine Intervention or deliberate and willful choice.
fridesgerte 10-02-07, 08:07 PM	To StruckingFuggle: In a sense it is a willful choice. She's mute because she agreed to give up her ability to speak (for a year and a day--11 months left) in exchange for being released from a blood oath to an evil Fey (really stupid thing to do, but see my signature <grin>). And she can't just not speak, she can't make any intelligible sounds. Generally, about being mute: If you have no tongue, you can still make sounds, they just are inarticulate--grunts and similar noises: If you have no vocal cords, or the cords don't work, you can still shape words with your lips, and maybe even produce faint whispery sounds--anyone else ever had really bad laryngitis? As for my PC, she doesn't even try to speak, not since the ritual in her Temple that sealed the the bargain. To Kouk: Thanks, I had not thought of getting a mental or manipulation control instead of a command word. If it's possible, that might work, especially for weapon features (Shock and Shocking Blast are high on her wish list). To RollaD20: I didn't know that the Drow could use their sign language for command words. My PC is hoping to learn a true sign language soon. My DM let her order a book of Sign Language to learn from when she couldn't find anyone to teach her, but it isn't ready yet, and she may not have the skill points available when it is. Of course he still might not let her use sign for this, he's made a point of finding ways for being mute to be "inconvenient." BTW, How do you quote from more than one message at a time? I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just cut and pasted.
Koplow92 10-02-07, 09:20 PM	Actually, I recall that there was a collar of some sort which granted speech to animals and creatures that normally can't speak. I'm not sure which book it is in, maybe Masters of the Wild? Don't remember. Yep. I have Masters of the Wild. The item is called the "Torc of Animal Speech". "Its wearer can use speak with animals effect at will. Maybe an item like that can be crafted to have a "de-mute" or "regain speech" effect.
StruckingFuggle 10-03-07, 12:56 AM	BTW, How do you quote from more than one message at a time? I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just cut and pasted. I open all the posts I want to quote in their own tabs and then copy & paste.
Rulebook 10-03-07, 09:15 AM	quit trying to find ways to weasle out of your bargian then! my suggestion would be to get items with commands that arent vocal in nature. while it always says spoken command word, i dont think any of the rules specificaly say a command HAS to be a spoken word.
Dheran 10-03-07, 03:50 PM	i dont think any of the rules specificaly say a command HAS to be a spoken word. Yes, the basic definition requires it:Command Word If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
Steevo 10-03-07, 04:18 PM	My PC (Level 12 Greatsword fighter) is mute, and can't use any magic item, weapon or armor feature that requires a spoken command word to activate. For example, she can't control the party's flying carpet because it uses verbal directions. What are her best choices for magical enhancements to armor and weapons? Cost is not much of an object. She's soon (hopefully) going to be in a position to replace a powerfully enchanted greatsword (long story), and either replace or improve her +3 plate. With regards to non-command activated powers, I would recommend things that are always on regardless, such as Ghost Touch, Keen, Vorpal, Fortification, etc. If I were your DM, I would happily allow you to get custom made items that activate by other means, for the same cost as normal, since activation is 99% flavour anyway. I would require you to have the item custom made, however, by finding an NPC who can do it, since such alternate activations would not be commonplace. Also, a regular Identify spell would reveal the alternate activation for this item instead of the regular activation, so it's not like someone who stole your weapon would be confused about how to make it work. Another alternative, assuming your DM is not willing to let you do this, would be to have someone else in the party activate the ability before combat begins. Which works fine assuming you're in an obviously dangerous place like a dungeon or something. Doesn't really help you if you get ambushed on the open road. You might want to ask if the sheath for a flaming sword would be damaged by the flaming ability, though. If not, you can just leave it on all the time.
Platstud 10-03-07, 04:30 PM	quit trying to find ways to weasle out of your bargian then! I don't think the OP was trying to weasel out. Despite the fact that most of the early replies were ways to get around the problem, the OP simply asked what equipment would be best for someone who couldn't speak.
The_Wrath_of_Talos 10-03-07, 05:02 PM	Have the party wizard cast ventrilquism and throw his voice to u so he can activate everything for u. Or maybe have a permanent magic mouth spell cast on you with all the command words programed into it. U could always get a pet parrot or raven to do ur talking for u as well.
fridesgerte 10-03-07, 10:01 PM	I don't think the OP was trying to weasel out. Despite the fact that most of the early replies were ways to get around the problem, the OP simply asked what equipment would be best for someone who couldn't speak. Thanks. You're right my PC is not trying to weasel out of the consequences, just be as effective as she can within the contstraints she's accepted. My real question was which "always on" features for weapons and armor do people think are most useful? Some of the ones I've looked at seem better than others, but I wanted some other opinions. It seems that every time something like this comes up on the list (muteness, blindness), people jump in to try to "fix" or get around it, even if that's not what the player asked about. If I were your DM, I would happily allow you to get custom made items that activate by other means, for the same cost as normal, since activation is 99% flavour anyway. I would require you to have the item custom made, however, by finding an NPC who can do it, since such alternate activations would not be commonplace. Also, a regular Identify spell would reveal the alternate activation for this item instead of the regular activation, so it's not like someone who stole your weapon would be confused about how to make it work. I am going to see if my DM will agree to at least one feature with an alternative activation method (twist hilt of Greatsword for Flaming, for example). When she does get new equipment it will all be purchased as upgrades to existing items, once she sells off a very valuable object she has but no longer wants to use.
RollaD20 10-04-07, 12:57 AM	just as a general rule of thumb, if a custom item is made only for a minor effect or for flavor, add 100-1000gp to the cost of the item, but this is just my house rule consult your DM on it before you go ahead with it. to avoid issue with the sheath taking fire damage, i'd suggest you coat it with alch. frost as that should provide temporary protection. in fact if i am correct i think there is a tool in the MiC that protects against fire damage. if all else fails, make it a custom sheath out of fire resistant metal or treated leather.
Rulebook 10-04-07, 06:48 AM	hmmm... upon reading the discriptions, it really does just say "until the command is given" that is just vague enough to be deciphered as "possibly a use activated gestural command" to me... just saying is all
Merestil Haye 10-04-07, 07:10 AM	BTW, How do you quote from more than one message at a time? I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just cut and pasted.As you read through the thread, click on the little "+" button to the right of the "quote" button in each post you want to reply to. Then, when you hit "Reply" they'll all be included in the reply window for you, complete with attributions. hmmm... upon reading the discriptions, it really does just say "until the command is given" that is just vague enough to be deciphered as "possibly a use activated gestural command" to me...just saying is allIf the item does not require a spoken command it will say so. For example, the Boots of Speed do not require a command word - you activate them by clicking the heels together. If the DM is willing, get some custom items that have thematically appropriate somatic activations. For example, Winged Boots that activate when you jump while pointing upward with one hand. Stuff like that.