Can warlocks apply a metamagic rod to their eldritch blasts? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can warlocks apply a metamagic rod to their eldritch blasts? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shadowthorne
02-03-08, 01:14 PM That's the question I have. I'm not sure if a metamagic feat from a rod can apply to an eldritch blast and/or essences and shapes added to the blast, along with the invocations. I would like to use a metamagic rod of substitution for my Chilling tentacles and apply acid damage instead of cold at times when I need it. Would someone please clarify this for me? Thank you
fatal error
02-03-08, 01:17 PM Don't think so. Eldritch Blast is a Spell-Like Ability, while Metamagic Rods apply to actual spells. You also can't use Metamagic Feats on Warlock abilities, you need the Monster Manual feats.
MAdgryphon
02-03-08, 02:24 PM Yeah, that sounds accurate, although, with a little DM collaberation, it might be possible to come up with meta-spell-like-ability rods, since the feat equivalents exist. Doesn't seem like it'd be terribly unbalanced, either.
Avatar of Kokusho
02-03-08, 07:15 PM There are a couple of items in the Magic Item Compendium that allow you to substitute your EB damage with energy damage. There's also a few that can apply shapes and essences. Very nice for a warlock, IMO.
Nephlite
02-03-08, 08:05 PM Don't think so. Eldritch Blast is a Spell-Like Ability, while Metamagic Rods apply to actual spells. You also can't use Metamagic Feats on Warlock abilities, you need the Monster Manual feats.

You can use sudden Metamagic.
Count Arioch the 28th
02-03-08, 08:26 PM You can use sudden Metamagic.

Huh, I didn't realize that until you pointed it out.
Shadowthorne
02-03-08, 09:06 PM Like the sudden metamagic feats, the rods provide the same benefit of applying the feat without a bump in spell slots. Seeing how that the sudden metamagic feats can be applied to eldritch abilities, it stands to reason that the rods could provide the same benefit since most of the spell-like abilities emulate the spells themselves. Thank you all, though, for some of the insights you've provided.
Merestil Haye
02-04-08, 07:01 AM The Sudden feats can be applied because the rules on the Sudden feats say they can. It does not extend to any other metamagic feat, not even those that don't increase the spell level. So I doubt that you can do this with rods, either.
Avatar of Kokusho
02-04-08, 08:30 AM The only way I would allow you to take and use regular metamagic feats is if you reduced your base EB damage accordingly. (for the level adjustment of the feat).
Wellspring
02-04-08, 09:43 AM Metamagic rods simulate Metamagic Feats. The feats they simulate do not work on Spell-Like Abilities. Therefore the rods don't either.

If the rules say a feat can be applied to SLAs or Eldritch Blasts, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd rule against using a feat that way, no matter what you do to its damage or effective level. Adding feats to items is always tricky but I guess a rod of Quicken Spelllike Ability (for example) would be ok if it was appropriately priced.
Shadowthorne
02-17-08, 11:21 PM Rise from the depths! Ok. Time to start a fight. When metamagic rods were introduced, it was in a frame of mind to provide sorcerers a wider range of metamagic options that the wizards naturally enjoy. Two some-odd years later, sudden metamagic feats are introduced. Then a year or two after that, they introduce the warlock with the ruling that this class could use sudden metamagic feats. These feats have the same (or similar) writing as what's written for the metamagic rods. In essence, the rulings for both rods and sudden metamagic feats say:

1. No bump in spell level.

2. No need for preparation.

3. Limited usage.

4. Expensive. (In their own way.)

As we all know, the sudden metamagic feats were ruled usable for warlocks because of the lack of a spell level requirement. With the warlock's ability to Deceive Items (all caster type items EXCEPT Runestaves), this would work on metamagic rods that have the same functioning rules as the sudden metamagic feats. Of course, one rod per spell (per DMG) would only be used, but it brings the warlock up to par in usefulness and power (even though he'd be nearly broke). It stands to reason that these rods are usable by creatures who utilize their spell-like abilities and whose spell descriptions are lifted right out of the PHB, along with not being just extra crunch for warlocks.
lezard_valeth
02-28-08, 01:49 PM The only way I would allow you to take and use regular metamagic feats is if you reduced your base EB damage accordingly. (for the level adjustment of the feat).

errata made the EB blast ALLWAYS by itself level 1.

adding shapes and colors to it however still increases it to a higher level.

"come by shadow dragons, let us reduce them to dust."

4 s dragons and a warlock w/ utterdark= A LOT of neg. levels.:D (that was fun.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowthorne 02-03-08, 01:14 PM	That's the question I have. I'm not sure if a metamagic feat from a rod can apply to an eldritch blast and/or essences and shapes added to the blast, along with the invocations. I would like to use a metamagic rod of substitution for my Chilling tentacles and apply acid damage instead of cold at times when I need it. Would someone please clarify this for me? Thank you
fatal error 02-03-08, 01:17 PM	Don't think so. Eldritch Blast is a Spell-Like Ability, while Metamagic Rods apply to actual spells. You also can't use Metamagic Feats on Warlock abilities, you need the Monster Manual feats.
MAdgryphon 02-03-08, 02:24 PM	Yeah, that sounds accurate, although, with a little DM collaberation, it might be possible to come up with meta-spell-like-ability rods, since the feat equivalents exist. Doesn't seem like it'd be terribly unbalanced, either.
Avatar of Kokusho 02-03-08, 07:15 PM	There are a couple of items in the Magic Item Compendium that allow you to substitute your EB damage with energy damage. There's also a few that can apply shapes and essences. Very nice for a warlock, IMO.
Nephlite 02-03-08, 08:05 PM	Don't think so. Eldritch Blast is a Spell-Like Ability, while Metamagic Rods apply to actual spells. You also can't use Metamagic Feats on Warlock abilities, you need the Monster Manual feats. You can use sudden Metamagic.
Count Arioch the 28th 02-03-08, 08:26 PM	You can use sudden Metamagic. Huh, I didn't realize that until you pointed it out.
Shadowthorne 02-03-08, 09:06 PM	Like the sudden metamagic feats, the rods provide the same benefit of applying the feat without a bump in spell slots. Seeing how that the sudden metamagic feats can be applied to eldritch abilities, it stands to reason that the rods could provide the same benefit since most of the spell-like abilities emulate the spells themselves. Thank you all, though, for some of the insights you've provided.
Merestil Haye 02-04-08, 07:01 AM	The Sudden feats can be applied because the rules on the Sudden feats say they can. It does not extend to any other metamagic feat, not even those that don't increase the spell level. So I doubt that you can do this with rods, either.
Avatar of Kokusho 02-04-08, 08:30 AM	The only way I would allow you to take and use regular metamagic feats is if you reduced your base EB damage accordingly. (for the level adjustment of the feat).
Wellspring 02-04-08, 09:43 AM	Metamagic rods simulate Metamagic Feats. The feats they simulate do not work on Spell-Like Abilities. Therefore the rods don't either. If the rules say a feat can be applied to SLAs or Eldritch Blasts, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd rule against using a feat that way, no matter what you do to its damage or effective level. Adding feats to items is always tricky but I guess a rod of Quicken Spelllike Ability (for example) would be ok if it was appropriately priced.
Shadowthorne 02-17-08, 11:21 PM	Rise from the depths! Ok. Time to start a fight. When metamagic rods were introduced, it was in a frame of mind to provide sorcerers a wider range of metamagic options that the wizards naturally enjoy. Two some-odd years later, sudden metamagic feats are introduced. Then a year or two after that, they introduce the warlock with the ruling that this class could use sudden metamagic feats. These feats have the same (or similar) writing as what's written for the metamagic rods. In essence, the rulings for both rods and sudden metamagic feats say: 1. No bump in spell level. 2. No need for preparation. 3. Limited usage. 4. Expensive. (In their own way.) As we all know, the sudden metamagic feats were ruled usable for warlocks because of the lack of a spell level requirement. With the warlock's ability to Deceive Items (all caster type items EXCEPT Runestaves), this would work on metamagic rods that have the same functioning rules as the sudden metamagic feats. Of course, one rod per spell (per DMG) would only be used, but it brings the warlock up to par in usefulness and power (even though he'd be nearly broke). It stands to reason that these rods are usable by creatures who utilize their spell-like abilities and whose spell descriptions are lifted right out of the PHB, along with not being just extra crunch for warlocks.
lezard_valeth 02-28-08, 01:49 PM	The only way I would allow you to take and use regular metamagic feats is if you reduced your base EB damage accordingly. (for the level adjustment of the feat). errata made the EB blast ALLWAYS by itself level 1. adding shapes and colors to it however still increases it to a higher level. "come by shadow dragons, let us reduce them to dust." 4 s dragons and a warlock w/ utterdark= A LOT of neg. levels.:D (that was fun.)