Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nephelim 04-18-07, 10:36 PM	Can a character, if they wanted, use a touch-attack ability on themselves? I'm guessing yes, that they could (for instance, an undead Shadow Sun Ninja using Touch of the Shadow Sun to heal themselves, then the next round using the positive energy touch to heal their (presumably living) companions), but I was wondering what the consensus might be...
Kouk 04-18-07, 10:42 PM	Since you can normally heal yourself with a cure spell, and also hurt undead with the same exact cure spell if you make a touch attack, I would say it is fine. I have no idea what that class or the ability does however.
runestar 04-18-07, 10:46 PM	Its funny - I asked a similar question some time back, but it was for a more devious purpose(warmind+robilar's gambit)...:D But yes, you should be able to.:)
KNW 04-22-07, 05:56 PM	Ah, just the question I was going to ask.. I'm currently playing a Ghoul, planning to multiclass into the Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror (mostly so I can cast Inflict spells on myself). A class ability at 1st level (Charnel Touch) allows the PC to make an unarmed touch attack that uses Negative Energy to deal 1d8 damage, +1 damage per four class levels. The text specifically says the attack will heal undead (which my character is), so... :schemes: ..can I stand there, jabbing myself in the face, to heal 1d8 damage? Or does that break a rule somewhere? Or is it a rules loophole I should discuss with my DM and have 'disabled'.
Maraxus 04-22-07, 09:17 PM	I'd say that any weapon that you can use in a grapple, you can normally use against yourself, too. Hurting yourself with one- or two-handed weapons is a bit more complecated but should work somewhat, too (As a full round action), unless it is a flail or similart weapon. Hurting yourself with a reach weapon needs several rounds of preparation. Touch attack? easy, just touch yourself. ;) About your plan: Looks like it should work. It depends, how powerful this ability is. I think Ghoul and Necromancer do not allready synergise so massively, that the ability to heal yourself after every fight would be overpowering, I think I'd allow it.
KNW 04-22-07, 09:23 PM	Just seems kinda beardy that an undead PC with Charnel Touch can, literally, stand there and heal 1d8/round. Although, the image of a PC standing there going 'Ow, Ahhhh. Ow, Ahhhh. Ow, Ahhhh' should let me do it just for the comedic value.
MareltEkiran 04-22-07, 09:32 PM	Being a Necropolitan (lowest LA undead available) or having the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat and then taking levels in Dread Necromancer is considered a perfectly viable strategy when playing a Dread Necromancer. Just make sure you carefully read the description. As a 1st level Dread Necromancer, you only heal 1 HP per touch. Of course, it's unlimited, but the amount of healing is far too slow to have any real effect in combat (in which case you should use your inflict spells anyway). However, given how affordable Wands of Cure Light Wounds or (even better) Wands of Lesser Vigor are anyway, it's hardly an unbalancing ability to be used outside of combat. And yes, you can attack yourself in all means possible. If you so wish, I believe you can even Coup de Grace yourself... aka, commit suicide.
SolemnDusk 04-23-07, 12:01 AM	Yeah, speaking of attacking yourself, my friend and I were having a discussion about whether or not a Samurai could actually commit seppuku (ritual suicide) in D&D... because the best he could do would be a coup de grace, so a 20th level Samurai should live through one of his own attacks... But then he brought up the rule that says you can willingly fail any saving throw if you choose... So it seems that they can gut themselves. Oh well.
runestar 04-23-07, 12:12 AM	Yeah, speaking of attacking yourself, my friend and I were having a discussion about whether or not a Samurai could actually commit seppuku (ritual suicide) in D&D... because the best he could do would be a coup de grace, so a 20th level Samurai should live through one of his own attacks... As mentioned, you can always opt to voluntarily fail the accompanying fort save...:)
JulesCARV 04-23-07, 12:12 AM	The funny thing is, this apparently implies that you can use Empathic Transfer on yourself, healing 2d10 damage and taking half of that back, for a neat healing of 1/2 * 2d10 damage. This seems to essentially make body adjustment obsolete, especially with vigor. (correct me if I'm wrong somewhere)
Nom 04-23-07, 02:04 AM	The funny thing is, this apparently implies that you can use Empathic Transfer on yourself, healing 2d10 damage and taking half of that back, for a neat healing of 1/2 * 2d10 damage. This seems to essentially make body adjustment obsolete, especially with vigor. (correct me if I'm wrong somewhere)ET explicitly works on "another creature". That said, it is likely more PP economical for two psionicists to use Empathic Transfer on each other than to use Body Adjustment. Body Adjustment is pretty expensive for what you get: 1d12 + 1d12 per "level" over 2 (PsyWar) or 3 (Psion) is pretty poor compared to the ~ 1d8 per level + CL that clerics get for cure spells, especially as BA is personal / 1 round, rather than touch / 1 std action. A level 7 cleric with cure crit can heal 4d8+7 (mean 25). A level 7 PsyWar with a 7 point BA can heal 3d12 (mean 19.5).
RobbyPants 04-23-07, 09:56 AM	Just make sure you carefully read the description. As a 1st level Dread Necromancer, you only heal 1 HP per touch. Of course, it's unlimited, but the amount of healing is far too slow to have any real effect in combat (in which case you should use your inflict spells anyway). However, given how affordable Wands of Cure Light Wounds or (even better) Wands of Lesser Vigor are anyway, it's hardly an unbalancing ability to be used outside of combat. Yeah, the healing aspect of the DN's ability works slower than the offensive aspect. Still, unlimited healing outside of battle is pretty attractive. I'm running a game now, and have told the players that at some point (a few months from now) I want to start a new game. I told them they can colaborate on their character creation if they want (mostly for making a "balanced" group), and they were tossing around the idea of one player being a DN, and all of them taking the Tomb Tained Soul feat from Libris Mortis (being healed by negative energy and harmed by positive, similar to undead). I told them I was fine with it (they all have to blow a feat, which could slow down meeting PrC requirements). The nice thing about unlimited healing outside of battle is that it gives them some more staying power, without really killing the game during battle.
Qwicksilver 04-23-07, 02:41 PM	There's a psionic power, I don't know if it's in 3.5 anymore, but I recall that it induced madness in the target. After a couple days he'd try to either coup de grace on his own sword (Ie. seppuku :P ), jump out of the nearest tall building, or left to his own devices, try and strangle himself. So, by remembering that power, I'd say that yes you can target yourself with almost anything that doesn't specify that it must be someone other than you.
Unagru 04-26-07, 07:48 PM	Absolutely. How do you think you'd survive on the plane of positive energy if you couldn't? If you don't stab yourself every two rounds you blow up :raincloud not pleasant... And most Dread Necros are considered pathetic/suicidal if they don't at least take tomb-tainted soul. The ability Negative Energy burst affects everything w/in 5 ft of your character... guess what? You're w/in 5 ft of yourself. That means it's a choice between healing 6d8+ damage or taking it Hmmmmm... choices, choices...
Edwind 04-26-07, 08:07 PM	And most Dread Necros are considered pathetic/suicidal if they don't at least take tomb-tainted soul. The ability Negative Energy burst affects everything w/in 5 ft of your character... guess what? You're w/in 5 ft of yourself. That means it's a choice between healing 6d8+ damage or taking it Hmmmmm... choices, choices... I'm not quite sure thats how it works...I mean, I of course could be wrong, but I think it's supposed to just be everything within five feet of you. Meaning, all the squares you threaten. But again, could be wrong...But that logic makes the DN sound stupid. I don't think WotC Wanted it to play out that way.
Luis_Dragunov 04-26-07, 08:23 PM	And most Dread Necros are considered pathetic/suicidal if they don't at least take tomb-tainted soul. The ability Negative Energy burst affects everything w/in 5 ft of your character... guess what? You're w/in 5 ft of yourself. That means it's a choice between healing 6d8+ damage or taking it Hmmmmm... choices, choices... That's not how it works. It affects every square adjacent to you. it's like any other aura or an emanation/burst/radius that begins in you. It doesn't hurt you. Spells that cause backlash and/or damage the spellcaster say so. Also, to the question of the topic: of course. In fact, you are the only target you can always hit. What's stopping you, other than physical restraits, from driving your head into the hilt of your sword or spear your own heart or even something as simple as jumping from a building? For spells, you can always touch yourself.
Nephelim 04-26-07, 08:32 PM	I'm shocked - SHOCKED I tell you! - that it took 16 posts before someone slipped in a double-entendre. ... I was expectng something much sooner.
Archangel_Tyrael 04-26-07, 08:55 PM	I'm shocked - SHOCKED I tell you! - that it took 16 posts before someone slipped in a double-entendre. ... I was expectng something much sooner. You haven't been reading close enough, Nephelim... Check out post #5. :P
Novacat 04-26-07, 09:05 PM	This begs the question: Since any spell on which you roll to hit can crit an enemy, and you can automatically crit yourself (treat yourself as helpless against your own attacks), shouldn't a cleric's cure spells actually heal twice as much as they're listed, since they're touch attacks used on friendly creatures?
Nom 04-26-07, 09:26 PM	shouldn't a cleric's cure spells actually heal twice as much as they're listed, since they're touch attacks used on friendly creatures?Sure. You can deal double the damage the touch attack normally deals, and then heal as normal.