Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OrcLord 10-06-07, 01:36 AM	RE: "A creature can squeeze past an opponent while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square." Does this mean that a creature can not end its turn in a squeeze? (If a large creature squeezes into a 10'x10' area, where one of the sqaures is occupied by an enemy, can he end his turn there staying in a squeeze, or is he deemed to "unsqueeze" at the end of his turn, and thusly deemed not able to do the action as he would be ending his turn in an occupied square.)
Dheran 10-06-07, 04:21 AM	Does this mean that a creature can not end its turn in a squeeze? Yes, that's exactly what it means.
OrcLord 10-06-07, 11:08 AM	I was wondering if this might have been addressed in an FAQ or such, since there is no rule saying that you can not end your turn in a squeeze. Accordingly, if my large sized character was traveling down a 5' tunnel, he could end his turn in the tunnel. Since he can end his turn squeezed into 2, 5' squares.... why would this be any different than ending it in 2, 5' squares next to an ally or enemy?
1 ton ghost 10-06-07, 03:05 PM	um, i think you can end on a squeeze it's just in your interest not to given penalties and so on. not an occupied square however, though you can argue feat and size combos ala halfing vs. giants, etc.
Zaranthan 10-06-07, 03:58 PM	If you squeeze into a tight space, you can stay there between rounds. If you squeeze into a space with another creature, you can't end your movement there (and thus, can't end your turn there).
OrcLord 10-06-07, 05:12 PM	Thanks for the rule clarification. It seems like this rule is highly inconsistent though, since it does allow for ending a turn in a squeeze -- to me squeezing into 2, 5' squares in a tunnel, or on a ledge, should be no different than ending one's turn standing on only 2, 5' squares next to an enemy. A character would take an attack of opportunity for doing so, and then is at the the -4 attack and -4 penalty. I'm not sure why the rules don't allow for this, but at least I now know that they do not :) It looks like I will be making a new house rule though, the next time I run a campaign :)
Nom 10-06-07, 07:00 PM	If you squeeze into a tight space, you can stay there between rounds.Yep. If you squeeze into a space with another creature, you can't end your movement there (and thus, can't end your turn there).Not quite. You don't squeeze into a space with another creature, you squeeze past it. For example, an orge (large) moving down a 10 ft. (2 square) wide corridor can use squeezing to move past a dwarf (medium) occupying one of the squares (he could also have attempted an overrun or tumble, but let's assume they weren't options). See diagrams in PH for an example of this. The orge could also squeeze through a 5 ft. gap between two opponents. Note that in either case he will suffer AoOs and defensive penalties. What the ogre can't do (as I understand the rule) is stop such that he is still squeezing past an opponent (as opposed to a pair of walls or other solid gap). I expect this is to avoid questions of what happens to the squeezing creature's space if the opponent moves away.
MnemonicSV 10-08-07, 02:32 AM	The only situations I can rationalize ending movement while squeezing would be ultra-rare situations in which you started your turn squeezing in the first place. For example, Lets say two characters were trying to escape from somewhere, and were bound back-to-back at the waist (they managed to free their hands/arms and feet/legs before being attacked). Beyond losing their DEX modifiers to AC (DM's call) one could argue that they would have to share the same space, and thus squeezing rules might be applied as well. The same arguement could be put forth towards two warhorses tied to a chariot. Certainly they could still trample or hoof (that is, attack) whatever's in front of them, but a DM may wish to apply squeezing penalties to the horses until they are loosed (and may also severly limit movement to anything but "forward"). Both of these situations are rare though, require ad hoc DM rulings, and imply that the two creatures that are squeezing either have no choice about it, or are doing so willingly. It also adds the complication of deciding "which half" of a square each character occupies that round (since one character could possibly grant cover to the other). In short, it's a complicated mess. Better off keeping the rules as written, and disallowing ending movement in a squeeze except for confined spaces, or the most unusual circumstances.
Alcalientre 10-08-07, 08:38 PM	I see absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to. If you and an enemy are in the same 10x10 area, against opposite walls, you simply remain squeezing in order to stay out of your opponent's square and continue combat without grappling. Heck, you could squeeze yourself any time you want to, even standing alone in the middle of a field. You would take up less space and just have to hope that no gophers pop up and try to nibble your toes at that moment.
Cifer 10-09-07, 07:28 AM	I'd say squeezing for extended periods of time is quite neccessary. After all, it would make even less sense that fast creatures can squeeze through a comparably long passage while slow creatures can't.
Zaranthan 10-09-07, 11:18 AM	I'd say squeezing for extended periods of time is quite neccessary. After all, it would make even less sense that fast creatures can squeeze through a comparably long passage while slow creatures can't. You can squeeze through a small passage as slowly as you need to. You can't squeeze into a space with another creature in it unless you can get past them. Different situations, same name.