Can you take a free action in the middle of a spring attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can you take a free action in the middle of a spring attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
skywyze
03-27-07, 04:42 PM Like the title says, I'm wondering what kinds of actions you can take during a spring attack. For the record, this is what the PHB says about them:

You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. (snip) For instance, calling out to your friends for help, dropping an object and ceasing to concentrate on a spell are all free actions.
When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate.

The question came up when we were trying to decide if one could use a swift action as part of a spring attack, since
You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action.
Karak_Nechot
03-27-07, 04:44 PM Yes. You can take a free action at any point during your turn, even while doing another action.
tarkin
03-27-07, 04:53 PM While there are times when you can not do a Free Action(or Swift Action), this is probably not one of them. You can generally do a Free Action in the middle of a Spring Attack.

As an example of a time you can not do a Free Action/Swift Action:

(Do not try this unless your DM is an Anything Goes DM)

"I want to Drope Prone after the archer had fired his arrow at me, but before the arrow hits me."
skywyze
03-27-07, 04:56 PM The reason I'm asking is because I'm using Tome of Battle and was wondering if Raging Mongoose Boost (A swift action to use) could be used as part of the spring attack. Sort of like how Bounding Assault from PHB2 gives you extra attacks during a spring attack.
Karak_Nechot
03-27-07, 05:08 PM Yes, it can.
skywyze
03-27-07, 05:10 PM Yes, it can.Sweetness. Now watch as I spring attack with Bounding Assault, Raging Mongoose, 5th level Tempest and Rapid Blitz! 1 normal + 4 mongoose + 1 tempest + 2 rapid blitz. That's 8 attacks a round, none of which provoke, and most of which are at full BAB! ^_^
jaelis
03-27-07, 09:03 PM Raging Mongoose doesn't work that way. It's a swift action to initiate, but you have to take a full attack action to get the extra attacks, per the normal rules for making more than one attack in a turn. (It's a boost, not a strike.) You can't take a full attack action with Spring Attack.
DarkRhystar
03-27-07, 10:10 PM Raging Mongoose doesn't work that way. It's a swift action to initiate, but you have to take a full attack action to get the extra attacks, per the normal rules for making more than one attack in a turn. (It's a boost, not a strike.) You can't take a full attack action with Spring Attack.

I can't find "full attack action" anywhere in the Raging Mongoose maneuver or its lesser cousin Dancing Mongoose.

The only thing that is clear is that since the attacks are labeled as "additional attacks" that you must attack at least once normally before making use of them. Spring Attack will fulfill that criteria.

You may so choose (as always) to house rule that a full attack is required however. :)
NoldorForce
03-27-07, 10:25 PM I can't find "full attack action" anywhere in the Raging Mongoose maneuver or its lesser cousin Dancing Mongoose.

The only thing that is clear is that since the attacks are labeled as "additional attacks" that you must attack at least once normally before making use of them. Spring Attack will fulfill that criteria.

You may so choose (as always) to house rule that a full attack is required however. :)There are more general rules that state that this won't work.If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks.You'll still get four attacks from the Tempest class feature and the Spring Attack feats, as they're exceptions to the normal rules (having triggered off Spring Attacking, a standard action).
ClementWillowbreaker
03-27-07, 11:53 PM And Cleave is also an exception. In fact, they are all exceptions to a rule that does not apply to the situation- you need to take a full attack to get extra attacks from having high BAB, TWF, and any other ability that actually says it requires a full-attack. If Mongoose doesn't say it requires a full-attack, then it doesn't. This is either broken or has restrictions I don't know about because I haven't read much of ToB, so I can't say if that is a good or a bad thing.

Swift actions and Spring Attack is sketchy ground. SA lets you split your move action, and says nothing about letting you interject other actions in the middle. Of course, SA was written long before swift actions were around, so there really wasn't anything to interject. Its restriction is that you have to take the attack action with a melee weapon, so nothing prohibits taking other actions you could take in the round besides the standard and move you used.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
skywyze 03-27-07, 04:42 PM	Like the title says, I'm wondering what kinds of actions you can take during a spring attack. For the record, this is what the PHB says about them: You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. (snip) For instance, calling out to your friends for help, dropping an object and ceasing to concentrate on a spell are all free actions. When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. The question came up when we were trying to decide if one could use a swift action as part of a spring attack, since You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action.
Karak_Nechot 03-27-07, 04:44 PM	Yes. You can take a free action at any point during your turn, even while doing another action.
tarkin 03-27-07, 04:53 PM	While there are times when you can not do a Free Action(or Swift Action), this is probably not one of them. You can generally do a Free Action in the middle of a Spring Attack. As an example of a time you can not do a Free Action/Swift Action: (Do not try this unless your DM is an Anything Goes DM) "I want to Drope Prone after the archer had fired his arrow at me, but before the arrow hits me."
skywyze 03-27-07, 04:56 PM	The reason I'm asking is because I'm using Tome of Battle and was wondering if Raging Mongoose Boost (A swift action to use) could be used as part of the spring attack. Sort of like how Bounding Assault from PHB2 gives you extra attacks during a spring attack.
Karak_Nechot 03-27-07, 05:08 PM	Yes, it can.
skywyze 03-27-07, 05:10 PM	Yes, it can.Sweetness. Now watch as I spring attack with Bounding Assault, Raging Mongoose, 5th level Tempest and Rapid Blitz! 1 normal + 4 mongoose + 1 tempest + 2 rapid blitz. That's 8 attacks a round, none of which provoke, and most of which are at full BAB! ^_^
jaelis 03-27-07, 09:03 PM	Raging Mongoose doesn't work that way. It's a swift action to initiate, but you have to take a full attack action to get the extra attacks, per the normal rules for making more than one attack in a turn. (It's a boost, not a strike.) You can't take a full attack action with Spring Attack.
DarkRhystar 03-27-07, 10:10 PM	Raging Mongoose doesn't work that way. It's a swift action to initiate, but you have to take a full attack action to get the extra attacks, per the normal rules for making more than one attack in a turn. (It's a boost, not a strike.) You can't take a full attack action with Spring Attack. I can't find "full attack action" anywhere in the Raging Mongoose maneuver or its lesser cousin Dancing Mongoose. The only thing that is clear is that since the attacks are labeled as "additional attacks" that you must attack at least once normally before making use of them. Spring Attack will fulfill that criteria. You may so choose (as always) to house rule that a full attack is required however. :)
NoldorForce 03-27-07, 10:25 PM	I can't find "full attack action" anywhere in the Raging Mongoose maneuver or its lesser cousin Dancing Mongoose. The only thing that is clear is that since the attacks are labeled as "additional attacks" that you must attack at least once normally before making use of them. Spring Attack will fulfill that criteria. You may so choose (as always) to house rule that a full attack is required however. :)There are more general rules that state that this won't work.If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks.You'll still get four attacks from the Tempest class feature and the Spring Attack feats, as they're exceptions to the normal rules (having triggered off Spring Attacking, a standard action).
ClementWillowbreaker 03-27-07, 11:53 PM	And Cleave is also an exception. In fact, they are all exceptions to a rule that does not apply to the situation- you need to take a full attack to get extra attacks from having high BAB, TWF, and any other ability that actually says it requires a full-attack. If Mongoose doesn't say it requires a full-attack, then it doesn't. This is either broken or has restrictions I don't know about because I haven't read much of ToB, so I can't say if that is a good or a bad thing. Swift actions and Spring Attack is sketchy ground. SA lets you split your move action, and says nothing about letting you interject other actions in the middle. Of course, SA was written long before swift actions were around, so there really wasn't anything to interject. Its restriction is that you have to take the attack action with a melee weapon, so nothing prohibits taking other actions you could take in the round besides the standard and move you used.