Can you tumble as part of a charge? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can you tumble as part of a charge? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
11-03-07, 01:55 AM Tumble is part of movement with no Actions required. If you take a -10 to your tumbling check, can you tumble while you Charge?
Drinkie
11-03-07, 11:45 AM Tumble is part of movement with no Actions required. If you take a -10 to your tumbling check, can you tumble while you Charge?

Only if you take the Acrobatic Charge feat. Then you can tumble, jump over, etc. other things while charging. You still have to charge in a straight line though.
FrostHammer
11-03-07, 12:29 PM Well, I just got back from the store hacing went out and bought the Rules compendium, so I guess I have the official WoTC answer now, and apparently you can Balance, Jump, AND Tumble during a charge with no Feats required.
ibayboy
11-03-07, 06:47 PM Well, I just got back from the store hacing went out and bought the Rules compendium, so I guess I have the official WoTC answer now, and apparently you can Balance, Jump, AND Tumble during a charge with no Feats required.

wow, good to know.:eek:
Dheran
11-04-07, 10:43 AM If you take a -10 to your tumbling check, can you tumble while you Charge? You can Tumble as part of a charge, because moving on land is "normal movement"; the Rules Compendium just clarified that. But it isn't clear that you can charge with a -10 Accelerated Tumbling penalty. Personally, I think you need the -20 Sprinting Tumble penalty, because the movement part of a charge needs to be faster than your normal hustle speed to allow time for the attack at the end.
EjoThims
11-05-07, 10:40 AM because the movement part of a charge needs to be faster than your normal hustle speed to allow time for the attack at the end.

Irrelevant.

You only take the penalties on your Tumble skill when moving a certain distance in a round.

As long as your charge didn't take you more than that distance, you wouldn't have any penalties to your tumble check made while charging.
Dheran
11-05-07, 05:42 PM You only take the penalties on your Tumble skill when moving a certain distance in a round. The Tumble skill description doesn't mention anything about distance. It talks about speed.Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement
...
Accelerated Tumbling
You try to tumble past or through enemies more quickly than normal. By accepting a -10 penalty on your Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half your speed.
Note that speed, not distance moved, also matters for Move Silently.
EjoThims
11-05-07, 09:26 PM The Tumble skill description doesn't mention anything about distance. It talks about speed. Note that speed, not distance moved, also matters for Move Silently.

Your speed determines distance travelled, not how quickly you move.

If you have a speed of 60', moving 10' and moving 30' are both up to half speed, and neither would require a negative modifier to a Tumble check, even while charging.

As long as the distance travelled while tumbling (or moving silently or hiding) is not more than half the distance that your speed allows you to move in a single move action, you do not take penalties, even if charging.

How fast you are actually moving whiel making travelling that distance does not matter.
Dheran
11-07-07, 06:24 PM Your speed determines distance travelled, not how quickly you move. It determines both. Your time spent moving doesn't change, so your speed must necessarily change.
If you have a speed of 60', moving 10' and moving 30' are both up to half speed, and neither would require a negative modifier to a Tumble check, even while charging. There would be no charging at all, since slowing down isn't permitted:Movement During a Charge

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles).
...
Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.DC 15: Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. All squares that you Tumble through without a negative modifier to your check slow movement, thus make charging impossible by the rules.
How fast you are actually moving whiel making travelling that distance does not matter. That's not backed up by the letter of the D&D rules. Speed matters.
arjomanes
11-07-07, 06:30 PM I think it's fair to say that that's a judgment call by a DM. I'd be fine with either a -10 or -20 penalty personally.
solbergb
11-07-07, 06:33 PM My ruling is yes, but it has to be an accellerated tumble (-10 to check).

The reason is that one of the preconditions of charging is that you have to be able to move at full speed. Tumbling normally halves your speed. If you are tumbling at full speed though, I can't see why it couldn't be combined with a charge (or a run for that matter, although that may require an even bigger penalty to the check)
arjomanes
11-07-07, 06:36 PM I'd rule a -10 (accelerated) for a normal move or a charge, and a -20 (sprinting) for a run action.
ToastedAmphibian
11-07-07, 08:01 PM My ruling is yes, but it has to be an accellerated tumble (-10 to check).

The reason is that one of the preconditions of charging is that you have to be able to move at full speed. Tumbling normally halves your speed. If you are tumbling at full speed though, I can't see why it couldn't be combined with a charge (or a run for that matter, although that may require an even bigger penalty to the check)

Exscuse me? So now i cant charge in heavy armor? Or while under the effects of a slow spell. A 20th level human Monk is somehow unable to charge at any speed less than 15ft per second, even though at first level that same monk could easily charge at a speed of 5 ft per second and his dwarf buddy can charge at less than 4 feet per second?

You guys do realise your not making sense there right?

Here are the rules for charging
Charge
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Movement During a Charge
You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

You will note that the only restrictions on speed are that you must move 10ft in your round, or 5/3 ft per second. Anything in excess of that is up to you and completly optional. If your speed is atleast 20, i see no reason why you should take a penalty on your tumble check. As for jumping and balancing though, i dont really see much point. Sure you CAN jump during a charge, but it dosnt look like their would be much benifit, if you consider a hole to be an obstacl that slows or hinders movment. But then agian, i guess if you hopped over it, it didnt hinder or slow you in the least, so have at it.
FrostHammer
11-08-07, 03:13 AM If you've got a high enough Jump modifier, you can also jump OVER opponents or friends as part of the charge.
EjoThims
11-08-07, 07:35 AM Speed matters.

Read your own quotes again. Voluntarily slowing your own speed is not 'hindering' it, and Tumbling does not affect squares, so your next quote is irrelevant.

As well, if this type of interpretation applied, charging would indeed be impossible in heavy armor (though still possible while tumbling, as your movement isn't hindered, you are just choosing to move less).

And yes, the further you move, the faster you would have to move to do so in the same time, but you are equally capable of moving as fast as possible or slow as possible to cover any distance you do move.

How far you move only determines the limits of your speed, not the true speed of your motion. All that matters for charge is that you move at least 10 feet. All that matters for tumble without penalties is that you move no more than half of the maximum distance your speed allows you to in a single move action.

Neither dictates nor hinders the actual speed of your travel.
solbergb
11-08-07, 01:37 PM the armor and encumbrance rules say you can still charge (and run, although at reduced rate for heavy armor/encumbrance.

Other things that slow movement prevent charge. for example, being in solid fog (which reduces speed to 5' per move action) prevents a 10' charge.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 11-03-07, 01:55 AM	Tumble is part of movement with no Actions required. If you take a -10 to your tumbling check, can you tumble while you Charge?
Drinkie 11-03-07, 11:45 AM	Tumble is part of movement with no Actions required. If you take a -10 to your tumbling check, can you tumble while you Charge? Only if you take the Acrobatic Charge feat. Then you can tumble, jump over, etc. other things while charging. You still have to charge in a straight line though.
FrostHammer 11-03-07, 12:29 PM	Well, I just got back from the store hacing went out and bought the Rules compendium, so I guess I have the official WoTC answer now, and apparently you can Balance, Jump, AND Tumble during a charge with no Feats required.
ibayboy 11-03-07, 06:47 PM	Well, I just got back from the store hacing went out and bought the Rules compendium, so I guess I have the official WoTC answer now, and apparently you can Balance, Jump, AND Tumble during a charge with no Feats required. wow, good to know.:eek:
Dheran 11-04-07, 10:43 AM	If you take a -10 to your tumbling check, can you tumble while you Charge? You can Tumble as part of a charge, because moving on land is "normal movement"; the Rules Compendium just clarified that. But it isn't clear that you can charge with a -10 Accelerated Tumbling penalty. Personally, I think you need the -20 Sprinting Tumble penalty, because the movement part of a charge needs to be faster than your normal hustle speed to allow time for the attack at the end.
EjoThims 11-05-07, 10:40 AM	because the movement part of a charge needs to be faster than your normal hustle speed to allow time for the attack at the end. Irrelevant. You only take the penalties on your Tumble skill when moving a certain distance in a round. As long as your charge didn't take you more than that distance, you wouldn't have any penalties to your tumble check made while charging.
Dheran 11-05-07, 05:42 PM	You only take the penalties on your Tumble skill when moving a certain distance in a round. The Tumble skill description doesn't mention anything about distance. It talks about speed.Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement ... Accelerated Tumbling You try to tumble past or through enemies more quickly than normal. By accepting a -10 penalty on your Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half your speed. Note that speed, not distance moved, also matters for Move Silently.
EjoThims 11-05-07, 09:26 PM	The Tumble skill description doesn't mention anything about distance. It talks about speed. Note that speed, not distance moved, also matters for Move Silently. Your speed determines distance travelled, not how quickly you move. If you have a speed of 60', moving 10' and moving 30' are both up to half speed, and neither would require a negative modifier to a Tumble check, even while charging. As long as the distance travelled while tumbling (or moving silently or hiding) is not more than half the distance that your speed allows you to move in a single move action, you do not take penalties, even if charging. How fast you are actually moving whiel making travelling that distance does not matter.
Dheran 11-07-07, 06:24 PM	Your speed determines distance travelled, not how quickly you move. It determines both. Your time spent moving doesn't change, so your speed must necessarily change. If you have a speed of 60', moving 10' and moving 30' are both up to half speed, and neither would require a negative modifier to a Tumble check, even while charging. There would be no charging at all, since slowing down isn't permitted:Movement During a Charge You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). ... Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.DC 15: Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. All squares that you Tumble through without a negative modifier to your check slow movement, thus make charging impossible by the rules. How fast you are actually moving whiel making travelling that distance does not matter. That's not backed up by the letter of the D&D rules. Speed matters.
arjomanes 11-07-07, 06:30 PM	I think it's fair to say that that's a judgment call by a DM. I'd be fine with either a -10 or -20 penalty personally.
solbergb 11-07-07, 06:33 PM	My ruling is yes, but it has to be an accellerated tumble (-10 to check). The reason is that one of the preconditions of charging is that you have to be able to move at full speed. Tumbling normally halves your speed. If you are tumbling at full speed though, I can't see why it couldn't be combined with a charge (or a run for that matter, although that may require an even bigger penalty to the check)
arjomanes 11-07-07, 06:36 PM	I'd rule a -10 (accelerated) for a normal move or a charge, and a -20 (sprinting) for a run action.
ToastedAmphibian 11-07-07, 08:01 PM	My ruling is yes, but it has to be an accellerated tumble (-10 to check). The reason is that one of the preconditions of charging is that you have to be able to move at full speed. Tumbling normally halves your speed. If you are tumbling at full speed though, I can't see why it couldn't be combined with a charge (or a run for that matter, although that may require an even bigger penalty to the check) Exscuse me? So now i cant charge in heavy armor? Or while under the effects of a slow spell. A 20th level human Monk is somehow unable to charge at any speed less than 15ft per second, even though at first level that same monk could easily charge at a speed of 5 ft per second and his dwarf buddy can charge at less than 4 feet per second? You guys do realise your not making sense there right? Here are the rules for charging Charge Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move. Movement During a Charge You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) You will note that the only restrictions on speed are that you must move 10ft in your round, or 5/3 ft per second. Anything in excess of that is up to you and completly optional. If your speed is atleast 20, i see no reason why you should take a penalty on your tumble check. As for jumping and balancing though, i dont really see much point. Sure you CAN jump during a charge, but it dosnt look like their would be much benifit, if you consider a hole to be an obstacl that slows or hinders movment. But then agian, i guess if you hopped over it, it didnt hinder or slow you in the least, so have at it.
FrostHammer 11-08-07, 03:13 AM	If you've got a high enough Jump modifier, you can also jump OVER opponents or friends as part of the charge.
EjoThims 11-08-07, 07:35 AM	Speed matters. Read your own quotes again. Voluntarily slowing your own speed is not 'hindering' it, and Tumbling does not affect squares, so your next quote is irrelevant. As well, if this type of interpretation applied, charging would indeed be impossible in heavy armor (though still possible while tumbling, as your movement isn't hindered, you are just choosing to move less). And yes, the further you move, the faster you would have to move to do so in the same time, but you are equally capable of moving as fast as possible or slow as possible to cover any distance you do move. How far you move only determines the limits of your speed, not the true speed of your motion. All that matters for charge is that you move at least 10 feet. All that matters for tumble without penalties is that you move no more than half of the maximum distance your speed allows you to in a single move action. Neither dictates nor hinders the actual speed of your travel.
solbergb 11-08-07, 01:37 PM	the armor and encumbrance rules say you can still charge (and run, although at reduced rate for heavy armor/encumbrance. Other things that slow movement prevent charge. for example, being in solid fog (which reduces speed to 5' per move action) prevents a 10' charge.