Candle of Invocation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Candle of Invocation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dunamin
07-06-06, 09:47 AM I'm kind of baffled by the gate ability of this item.

Anybody who can afford the 8400 gp it costs gets to call up to a 34 HD outsider to perform an immediate task (such as making your BBEG go poof)? And that's disregarding all the other things you can do with this candle.

Of course, if the task isn't sufficiently important and in the called being's interests, chances are it will pay a visit later (or send servants) for wasting its time - in best case demanding adequate payment/service. But then again, even PCs can be martyrs (martyrdom is a great way to finish off a good campaign).
Dragonteuthis
07-06-06, 09:56 AM Did you have a question?
Dunamin
07-06-06, 10:53 AM Well, I just wanted to hear what people thought about that particular item.

Have I misunderstood its potential? Isn't it fairly powerful considering its price and the fact that anybody can use it? Seems like a superior alternative to hiring a high level assasin... A group of low-level adventurers could pool their money together to take out people very far above their level (if they could track a willing candle seller).
Dalthbar
07-06-06, 11:45 AM Well, if you read the gate spell, you'll see there's a ton of limitations.

1) you need to know a specific creature's name to call that creature (that's the 34 HD option).
2) if you don't, you know to know OF creatures of a like alignment as you (that's now 17 HD).
3) you can only get 17 rounds of action unless you pay more money (or worse - favors!) to the being (thus increasing the cost of the item considerably).

All-in-all, it _can_ be powerful, but the DM shouldn't allow PCs access to this until an appropriate level. Also, if dealing with evil extraplanar beings, there's a severe risk of "bad things" happening.

It's clearly a double-edged sword that carries great potential at great risk.

But... it's always the DMs call to use it and they should be willing to deal with the consequences if they do.
Dunamin
07-06-06, 02:53 PM 1) you need to know a specific creature's name to call that creature (that's the 34 HD option).
No, you don't have to name a specific individual.
If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual - for instance, a bearded devil or a ghaele eladrin - you may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. You can call and control several creatures as long as their HD total does not exceed your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level.
So you can call and control a single outsider with up to 34 HD. There is some limitation in that low-level characters likely wouldn't have heard of specific outsider races with high HD, though.

2) if you don't, you know to know OF creatures of a like alignment as you (that's now 17 HD).
No, you're probably thinking of the other benefits of the candle. The gate power says this:
In addition, burning a candle also allows the owner to cast a gate spell, the respondent being of the same alignment as the candle, but the taper is immediately consumed in the process.
So while the candle determines the alignment of the creature to come through, you don't have to match that alignment to light the candle and use that power (and as mentioned before, it can be of any HD, but will only be controlled if 34 or less).

3) you can only get 17 rounds of action unless you pay more money (or worse - favors!) to the being (thus increasing the cost of the item considerably).
Yes, and that's enough time to accomplish extremely difficult goals, such as eliminating very powerful individuals (especially considering how high HD outsiders usually have Greater Teleport at will).

Don't worry, I intend to keep it out of my players grasp until they are at an appropriate level. Just wanted to see if I was the only one surprised at how powerful the candle was, compared to its price and the fact that there's no game mechanical restriction to who can use it.

For instance, let's say a group of evil adventurers gets hold of a candle devoted to LE / CE. They charm a 1st lvl commoner, teach him about pit fiends / balors and force him (magically or skillfully) to follow this plan: Accept the candle as a gift, take the candle to some miles from the destination of the target(s), gate in the fiend, order him to eliminate the target(s), and while the fiend teleports to the site or after it has returned to its plane, you eliminate the commoner and take care to remove any connection between him and the group. Sure it's not fool-proof, but there's still a decent chance of getting away with it, depending on your ressources to cover up the plot.

Another example, let's say a good group gets hold of a candle devoted to a good alignment. If there's a potential martyr in the group, he can take it upon himself to call a solar to eliminate the BBEG of the campaign, if it can be accomplished by a solar within 17 rounds. Even if the solar later returns, because it feels that your cause was not worthy enough, its "punishment" would further good causes - something that the martyr PC wouldn't mind. If that takes his character out of the game for good (no pun intended), that would truly be a worthy sacrifice to end the campaign, and he can roll up a new character for the next one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dunamin 07-06-06, 09:47 AM	I'm kind of baffled by the gate ability of this item. Anybody who can afford the 8400 gp it costs gets to call up to a 34 HD outsider to perform an immediate task (such as making your BBEG go poof)? And that's disregarding all the other things you can do with this candle. Of course, if the task isn't sufficiently important and in the called being's interests, chances are it will pay a visit later (or send servants) for wasting its time - in best case demanding adequate payment/service. But then again, even PCs can be martyrs (martyrdom is a great way to finish off a good campaign).
Dragonteuthis 07-06-06, 09:56 AM	Did you have a question?
Dunamin 07-06-06, 10:53 AM	Well, I just wanted to hear what people thought about that particular item. Have I misunderstood its potential? Isn't it fairly powerful considering its price and the fact that anybody can use it? Seems like a superior alternative to hiring a high level assasin... A group of low-level adventurers could pool their money together to take out people very far above their level (if they could track a willing candle seller).
Dalthbar 07-06-06, 11:45 AM	Well, if you read the gate spell, you'll see there's a ton of limitations. 1) you need to know a specific creature's name to call that creature (that's the 34 HD option). 2) if you don't, you know to know OF creatures of a like alignment as you (that's now 17 HD). 3) you can only get 17 rounds of action unless you pay more money (or worse - favors!) to the being (thus increasing the cost of the item considerably). All-in-all, it _can_ be powerful, but the DM shouldn't allow PCs access to this until an appropriate level. Also, if dealing with evil extraplanar beings, there's a severe risk of "bad things" happening. It's clearly a double-edged sword that carries great potential at great risk. But... it's always the DMs call to use it and they should be willing to deal with the consequences if they do.
Dunamin 07-06-06, 02:53 PM	1) you need to know a specific creature's name to call that creature (that's the 34 HD option). No, you don't have to name a specific individual. If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual - for instance, a bearded devil or a ghaele eladrin - you may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. You can call and control several creatures as long as their HD total does not exceed your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level. So you can call and control a single outsider with up to 34 HD. There is some limitation in that low-level characters likely wouldn't have heard of specific outsider races with high HD, though. 2) if you don't, you know to know OF creatures of a like alignment as you (that's now 17 HD). No, you're probably thinking of the other benefits of the candle. The gate power says this: In addition, burning a candle also allows the owner to cast a gate spell, the respondent being of the same alignment as the candle, but the taper is immediately consumed in the process. So while the candle determines the alignment of the creature to come through, you don't have to match that alignment to light the candle and use that power (and as mentioned before, it can be of any HD, but will only be controlled if 34 or less). 3) you can only get 17 rounds of action unless you pay more money (or worse - favors!) to the being (thus increasing the cost of the item considerably). Yes, and that's enough time to accomplish extremely difficult goals, such as eliminating very powerful individuals (especially considering how high HD outsiders usually have Greater Teleport at will). Don't worry, I intend to keep it out of my players grasp until they are at an appropriate level. Just wanted to see if I was the only one surprised at how powerful the candle was, compared to its price and the fact that there's no game mechanical restriction to who can use it. For instance, let's say a group of evil adventurers gets hold of a candle devoted to LE / CE. They charm a 1st lvl commoner, teach him about pit fiends / balors and force him (magically or skillfully) to follow this plan: Accept the candle as a gift, take the candle to some miles from the destination of the target(s), gate in the fiend, order him to eliminate the target(s), and while the fiend teleports to the site or after it has returned to its plane, you eliminate the commoner and take care to remove any connection between him and the group. Sure it's not fool-proof, but there's still a decent chance of getting away with it, depending on your ressources to cover up the plot. Another example, let's say a good group gets hold of a candle devoted to a good alignment. If there's a potential martyr in the group, he can take it upon himself to call a solar to eliminate the BBEG of the campaign, if it can be accomplished by a solar within 17 rounds. Even if the solar later returns, because it feels that your cause was not worthy enough, its "punishment" would further good causes - something that the martyr PC wouldn't mind. If that takes his character out of the game for good (no pun intended), that would truly be a worthy sacrifice to end the campaign, and he can roll up a new character for the next one.