Canibalizing Magical Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Canibalizing Magical Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alistaire
07-13-05, 06:58 PM OK here is teh situation. The group I DM has a bunch of magical weapons of an effective +4 bonus. The way I have my economy setup is that there is no way to sell the weapons. Add in the fact that some of the weapons are evil and you have even more trouble selling or bartering them away. Suffice to say nobody in the single city left on my world has anything to barter in exchange for the weapons, rendering them useless to the group aisde from giving them out as goodwill gifts to NPCs.

What my group wants to do is canibalize the weapons to absorb some of the experience costs assosciated with the creation of a new item (or upgrading as is the case right now which I have existing house rules for.) I am wondering what people think would be a fair set of rules to employ to allow the "useless" items to be destroyed in the creation of other items.

Currently I have thoughts for the following:

1. A single magical item can be used in the creation process absorbing up to 75% of the canibalized item's experience cost. Basically the canibalized item cost 1,000 xp to create in the first place, you may use it to absorb up to 750xp for use in constructing a single item.

2. Any number of magical items may be canibalized during the creation process, but each item only absorbs 50% of its original expereince cost.

Further I would probably limit this to the point that you can only absorb a maximum of 90% of the experience cost in such a manner.
Ricohard_Draconis
07-13-05, 07:06 PM there is actually a rule for just this. However its not available to either wizards or sorcerers.

Its a class feature of the Eberron Artificer that lets you absorb the Xp in a magic item and add it to their craft pool.
Alistaire
07-13-05, 08:44 PM Unfortunately I have no intention of buying a campaign setting for a prestige class I know my pc's won't be interested in taking.
Ricohard_Draconis
07-13-05, 08:47 PM its actually a core class but thats besides the point.

i just suggested it as something you might want to have a look at in you FLGS as inspirational, also note that theres a clarification on the rules some where around on the site.
Alistaire
07-13-05, 08:57 PM Well I just looked over the crafting portion of the class in a post in the Eberron forums. It is definitely a class I would allow in my games, though my pc's are more of the pure offensive power type. It is sorta similar I guess to what I am looking to accomplish, I like the idea of allowing anyone to canibalize an item, though definitely not at the full experience "gain" that the artificer gets. I suppose I'll go with my 50% method just to keep that class looking intersting should one of my pc's ever pick the book up.

Thanks :)
ninja1
07-14-05, 09:06 AM Hmmm, canablizing items sounds reasonable. Also, the limitations and diminishing returns you suggest would probably prevent much abuse as long as you are not overcompensating by offering them more treasure.

About your pc's running out of buyers... Are they high enough level to teleport to a city where they know guilds or shops exist that would want to buy these? Are they high enough level to know spells to Call outsiders which might be interested in purchasing them?
tarkin
07-14-05, 09:39 AM As a DM looking for a House Rule, I might consider this:

Offer a feat called "Spell Absorption".

If you are casting a spell such as Wish, Limited Wish, etc. that uses up XP, you can instead sacrifice a magic item that took at least that much XP to create, instead of paying the XP cost yourself.
DarknessEternal
07-14-05, 11:49 AM This requires further explanation. Why would they be unable to sell things?
bjorntfh
07-14-05, 11:52 AM In the campaign I'm in our GM lets us strip items for their GP value when making items (rather than sell them, we're deep in Underdark and have no access to sellers.) We still pay the exp costs, just replace the standard GP with an equal value in items.
Jaid
07-14-05, 01:21 PM as the OP explained, there is currently only one city in the world remaining.

so teleporting to another city is not exactly an option.

it is entirely possible that the people in said city are not very well off, as the fact that there is only one city in the entire world remaining tends to indicate that you aren't exactly in a time period of great wealth and prosperity.

furthermore, should that one city happen to be a small city, it may not have the money or goods to buy the swords from the PCs. particularly if the PCs wish to sell multiple +4 weapons (or equivalents), the city may not have the resources to buy them, or may just not be interested in them (a +4 weapon is good, that's true, but if you have 1,000 warriors, it's a better idea to give them all 1 weapon costing 1 GP each than it is to spend 1,000 GP getting one of them a good weapon, for example)

anyways, for the record, the artificer is actually a rather impressive raw combat power type class, from what i hear. it can be more powerful than you might think.

and, i personally would allow a feat to draw out 50% of the XP for crafting purposes, or the feat that tarkin suggested, or even make them both available (separately, that is). i wouldn't just hand it out for free though. however, it is your campaign, and if you don't feel it will be a problem, then you can certainly put it in. you know your campaign setting better than we do, i should think.
ninja1
07-14-05, 03:25 PM Ah, I missed that part about the "the single city left on my world".

But that still doesn't negate the possibility of Outsider Buyers.
Alistaire
07-14-05, 06:10 PM This requires further explanation. Why would they be unable to sell things?

In my campaign society has fallen because the two moons orbitting the planet collided, resulting in teh complete destruction of one which came crashing down in pieces while other pieces of it created a ring around the planet. The other moon is not holding together very well, but is maintaining its orbit.

There is only one city that the group knows of and it was founded about a year after the fall of society. Literally every city on the planet was destroyed either by the crashing fragments or the tsunamis caused as a direct result. The world then entered a period of "nuclear winter" and necromancers are in their dreamland with the ready availability of corpses.

And Jaid is correct. While there are now about 1,500 people in the city, they are not exactly well off. They have been busy defending themselves against undead and trying to create a stable food source to sustain their population.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alistaire 07-13-05, 06:58 PM	OK here is teh situation. The group I DM has a bunch of magical weapons of an effective +4 bonus. The way I have my economy setup is that there is no way to sell the weapons. Add in the fact that some of the weapons are evil and you have even more trouble selling or bartering them away. Suffice to say nobody in the single city left on my world has anything to barter in exchange for the weapons, rendering them useless to the group aisde from giving them out as goodwill gifts to NPCs. What my group wants to do is canibalize the weapons to absorb some of the experience costs assosciated with the creation of a new item (or upgrading as is the case right now which I have existing house rules for.) I am wondering what people think would be a fair set of rules to employ to allow the "useless" items to be destroyed in the creation of other items. Currently I have thoughts for the following: 1. A single magical item can be used in the creation process absorbing up to 75% of the canibalized item's experience cost. Basically the canibalized item cost 1,000 xp to create in the first place, you may use it to absorb up to 750xp for use in constructing a single item. 2. Any number of magical items may be canibalized during the creation process, but each item only absorbs 50% of its original expereince cost. Further I would probably limit this to the point that you can only absorb a maximum of 90% of the experience cost in such a manner.
Ricohard_Draconis 07-13-05, 07:06 PM	there is actually a rule for just this. However its not available to either wizards or sorcerers. Its a class feature of the Eberron Artificer that lets you absorb the Xp in a magic item and add it to their craft pool.
Alistaire 07-13-05, 08:44 PM	Unfortunately I have no intention of buying a campaign setting for a prestige class I know my pc's won't be interested in taking.
Ricohard_Draconis 07-13-05, 08:47 PM	its actually a core class but thats besides the point. i just suggested it as something you might want to have a look at in you FLGS as inspirational, also note that theres a clarification on the rules some where around on the site.
Alistaire 07-13-05, 08:57 PM	Well I just looked over the crafting portion of the class in a post in the Eberron forums. It is definitely a class I would allow in my games, though my pc's are more of the pure offensive power type. It is sorta similar I guess to what I am looking to accomplish, I like the idea of allowing anyone to canibalize an item, though definitely not at the full experience "gain" that the artificer gets. I suppose I'll go with my 50% method just to keep that class looking intersting should one of my pc's ever pick the book up. Thanks :)
ninja1 07-14-05, 09:06 AM	Hmmm, canablizing items sounds reasonable. Also, the limitations and diminishing returns you suggest would probably prevent much abuse as long as you are not overcompensating by offering them more treasure. About your pc's running out of buyers... Are they high enough level to teleport to a city where they know guilds or shops exist that would want to buy these? Are they high enough level to know spells to Call outsiders which might be interested in purchasing them?
tarkin 07-14-05, 09:39 AM	As a DM looking for a House Rule, I might consider this: Offer a feat called "Spell Absorption". If you are casting a spell such as Wish, Limited Wish, etc. that uses up XP, you can instead sacrifice a magic item that took at least that much XP to create, instead of paying the XP cost yourself.
DarknessEternal 07-14-05, 11:49 AM	This requires further explanation. Why would they be unable to sell things?
bjorntfh 07-14-05, 11:52 AM	In the campaign I'm in our GM lets us strip items for their GP value when making items (rather than sell them, we're deep in Underdark and have no access to sellers.) We still pay the exp costs, just replace the standard GP with an equal value in items.
Jaid 07-14-05, 01:21 PM	as the OP explained, there is currently only one city in the world remaining. so teleporting to another city is not exactly an option. it is entirely possible that the people in said city are not very well off, as the fact that there is only one city in the entire world remaining tends to indicate that you aren't exactly in a time period of great wealth and prosperity. furthermore, should that one city happen to be a small city, it may not have the money or goods to buy the swords from the PCs. particularly if the PCs wish to sell multiple +4 weapons (or equivalents), the city may not have the resources to buy them, or may just not be interested in them (a +4 weapon is good, that's true, but if you have 1,000 warriors, it's a better idea to give them all 1 weapon costing 1 GP each than it is to spend 1,000 GP getting one of them a good weapon, for example) anyways, for the record, the artificer is actually a rather impressive raw combat power type class, from what i hear. it can be more powerful than you might think. and, i personally would allow a feat to draw out 50% of the XP for crafting purposes, or the feat that tarkin suggested, or even make them both available (separately, that is). i wouldn't just hand it out for free though. however, it is your campaign, and if you don't feel it will be a problem, then you can certainly put it in. you know your campaign setting better than we do, i should think.
ninja1 07-14-05, 03:25 PM	Ah, I missed that part about the "the single city left on my world". But that still doesn't negate the possibility of Outsider Buyers.
Alistaire 07-14-05, 06:10 PM	This requires further explanation. Why would they be unable to sell things? In my campaign society has fallen because the two moons orbitting the planet collided, resulting in teh complete destruction of one which came crashing down in pieces while other pieces of it created a ring around the planet. The other moon is not holding together very well, but is maintaining its orbit. There is only one city that the group knows of and it was founded about a year after the fall of society. Literally every city on the planet was destroyed either by the crashing fragments or the tsunamis caused as a direct result. The world then entered a period of "nuclear winter" and necromancers are in their dreamland with the ready availability of corpses. And Jaid is correct. While there are now about 1,500 people in the city, they are not exactly well off. They have been busy defending themselves against undead and trying to create a stable food source to sustain their population.