Carpet of Flying ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Carpet of Flying ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LESSEROF2EVILS
02-07-07, 01:58 PM From the SRD:

Carpet of Flying: This rug is able to fly through the air as if affected by an overland flight spell of unlimited duration. The size, carrying capacity, and speed of the different carpets of flying are shown on the table below. Beautifully and intricately made, each carpet has its own command word to activate it—if the device is within voice range, the command word activates it, whether the speaker is on the rug or not. The carpet is then controlled by spoken directions.

Size Capacity Speed Weight Market Price
5 ft. by 5 ft. 200 lb. 40 ft. 8 lb. 20,000 gp
5 ft. by 10 ft. 400 lb. 40 ft. 15 lb. 35,000 gp
10 ft. by 10 ft. 800 lb. 40 ft. 10 lb. 60,000 gp

A carpet of flying can carry up to double its capacity, but doing so reduces its speed to 30 feet. It has average maneuverability, but a carpet of flying can still hover.
Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, overland flight, permanency.

Questions:

1) Does anyone know how the carpet of flying's market price was calculated?

2) How does size and weight affect the market price of a carpet of flying (ie. percentage of magic item creation cost at each size)?

3) Can someone explain the scaling system of the carpet of flying's market price?

Anyone?

Thanks
Zaistars69
02-07-07, 04:25 PM 1, it wasn't calculated it was set based on usefulness

2. They just ad libed it based on playtesting and usefullness.

3. Again no clear calculation was used, when I divided square footage by cost the scale slid, and not evenly.
LESSEROF2EVILS
02-07-07, 04:54 PM Yeah, that's kinda what I came up with as well.

The reason for the questions is this: If a player were to enchant a larger magic item, what would be the best way to calculate the cost/marketprice?

Example: After discovering a flying carpet, and spending some time studing it, a player wants to "enchant" a keelboat in the same way.

I'm willing to except this into the game, but what would be a reasonable price? Casting overland flight/permanency has a rough market price of 13,400 gp (assuming I allow this method), while creating a continuous use overland flight spell costs roughly 100,000 gp (equivalent to a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying which cost 20,000 gp).

This is a fairly large spread to cover. I get a cost of 220,000 gp, when I try to increase the price by square footage using a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying as the base price (20,000 gp gp x11). This seems excessive to me, considering the impact the item will have on the game.

Any thoughts?
Zaistars69
02-07-07, 05:08 PM Yeah, that's kinda what I came up with as well.

The reason for the questions is this: If a player were to enchant a larger magic item, what would be the best way to calculate the cost/marketprice?

Example: After discovering a flying carpet, and spending some time studing it, a player wants to "enchant" a keelboat in the same way.

I'm willing to except this into the game, but what would be a reasonable price? Casting overland flight/permanency has a rough market price of 13,400 gp (assuming I allow this method), while creating a continuous use overland flight spell costs roughly 100,000 gp (equivalent to a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying which cost 20,000 gp).

This is a fairly large spread to cover. I get a cost of 220,000 gp, when I try to increase the price by square footage using a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying as the base price (20,000 gp gp x11). This seems excessive to me, considering the impact the item will have on the game.

Any thoughts?

One of the Eberron sups has information on flying craft. Granted it uses elemental binding but if your players want something that large to fly they will need to use something more drastic than a 3rd level spell designed to lift the caster and stuff he could normally carry. And yes I know that a half dragon troll with the proper items and an 18 str to start can almost lift a keelboat. :)
LESSEROF2EVILS
02-07-07, 05:34 PM Yeah. I looked through the Eberron supplements (Campaign Setting and Explorer's Handbook), but they contain a level of technology the game currently lacks.

I'm in agreement with your concern about the ability of a player to cast a spell and make a sea vessel fly. Taking that into accout, we discussed the possibility of using the item creation rules to incoporate spells into a sea vessel - creating an airship.

it seems a reasonable enough proposition, if I can find a balance of time/resources/xp vs the gain to the players. The development of the airship, also opens up possibilites for additional game hooks (ie. acquiring unique material components). This is never a bad thing...

Thoughts?

And yes I know that a half dragon troll with the proper items and an 18 str to start can almost lift a keelboat. :)

This gave me a funny picture of Atlas (as a Half-Dragon Troll) carrying the weight of a keelboat on his shoulders, while his winged boots struggle to keep him alot.

Thanks.
Fireclave
02-07-07, 05:40 PM The Stronghold Builder's guide has rules for creating flying strongholds. Try basing your sea-to-airships on those rules.
Zaistars69
02-07-07, 05:43 PM The Stronghold Builder's guide has rules for creating flying strongholds. Try basing your sea-to-airships on those rules.

Not a bad idea, I'll have to take a look at that one too.
Iver Gearsham
02-07-07, 10:17 PM Also look at FR's Shining South book they have a 4th lvl levitate spell called Suspension lifts 1,000 lbs per caster lvl lasts days per caster lvl.

With it I make temporary flying ships zero exp cost much less gold cost unless you want it fully sea worthy as well.
If it is destroyed or captured your out a boat not a boat load of money.

The only problem is Dispell Magics and MDJ But anyone who has a brain on a flying ship gets a Ring of Feather Fall or mems the spell or has a one shot item/magic gizmo too keep gravity at bay.
Immovable Rods make an interesting breaking system from falling or emergency stops.
Zaistars69
02-08-07, 10:39 AM Also look at FR's Shining South book they have a 4th lvl levitate spell called Suspension lifts 1,000 lbs per caster lvl lasts days per caster lvl.

With it I make temporary flying ships zero exp cost much less gold cost unless you want it fully sea worthy as well.
If it is destroyed or captured your out a boat not a boat load of money.

The only problem is Dispell Magics and MDJ But anyone who has a brain on a flying ship gets a Ring of Feather Fall or mems the spell or has a one shot item/magic gizmo too keep gravity at bay.
Immovable Rods make an interesting breaking system from falling or emergency stops.

I really don't think the immovable rod would help with the falling ship. The ship would most likely just break around the rod and continue falling. It would also be funny to be that guy in the cargo hold with the ring of feather fall when the ship's levitate gets dispelled. ooooh.
Decinious
02-08-07, 12:40 PM Arms and Equipment Guide also has some stuff on Vechicles.
LESSEROF2EVILS
02-08-07, 03:15 PM Also look at FR's Shining South book they have a 4th lvl levitate spell called Suspension lifts 1,000 lbs per caster lvl lasts days per caster lvl.

With it I make temporary flying ships zero exp cost much less gold cost unless you want it fully sea worthy as well.
If it is destroyed or captured your out a boat not a boat load of money.

And I'd be fine with this, as long as they don't plan on using it as a means of conveyence. If it was going to be used as a combat vessel, or as a "magic item" then I'd personally require a little more than just a spell. If for no other reason, than the Halruaan Skyship from the same book costs 400,000 gp.

The The Xen'drik Flying Boat here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070129a), uses a fly/mass fly spell to power it's flight.

Note: does a 4th level spell, that move 1,000 lbs/level, for 1d4+1 days/level, at a speed of 45 feet a round seem like a bit much to anyone else.

The only problem is Dispell Magics and MDJ But anyone who has a brain on a flying ship gets a Ring of Feather Fall or mems the spell or has a one shot item/magic gizmo too keep gravity at bay.

There is also an anti-gravity "life perserver" called a Life Ring found on page 31 of the Eberron Explorer's Handbook that costs a mere 400 gp. Designed for just such a purpose.

Thanks for the help people - keep it coming. :)
Iver Gearsham
02-08-07, 10:59 PM And I'd be fine with this, as long as they don't plan on using it as a means of conveyence. If it was going to be used as a combat vessel, or as a "magic item" then I'd personally require a little more than just a spell. If for no other reason, than the Halruaan Skyship from the same book costs 400,000 gp.
Wow! so as long as I Never use it never go anywhere with it I could have the Flying Queen Mary 2 all to myself?! Amazing!
Just say "No" it is easier and with a good reason gets respect.

Note: does a 4th level spell, that move 1,000 lbs/level, for 1d4+1 days/level, at a speed of 45 feet a round seem like a bit much to anyone else. 45 ft. of Vertical (up/down) movement only. Forward movment is by wind power or other magics/mechanical propultion.
LESSEROF2EVILS
02-09-07, 04:10 AM Wow! so as long as I Never use it never go anywhere with it I could have the Flying Queen Mary 2 all to myself?! Amazing!
Just say "No" it is easier and with a good reason gets respect.

Fair enough! I suppose, if the mighty mage wishes to use his flying canoe as a fortress in the sky who am I to judge. ;)

My biggest problem, is with the attempt to get something for nothing. The Flying Queen Mary 2, would be a bit much though. Actually, it's not that far off from the vessel in the Eberron Explorer's Handbook, except that the airship cost 92,000 gp.

45 ft. of Vertical (up/down) movement only. Forward movment is by wind power or other magics/mechanical propultion.

Sorry, should have been more clear. My issue is more with the fact that it allows for movement of substantial weight, at the cost of a spell slot every 1d4+1 days/level.

Take a vessel with sails, a War Canoe for example: lift the vessel up into the air, and move at 10 ft. x wind speed per round. Unless of course "the object remains in place for the duration of the spell" is meant to prohit outside forces from changing it's position...
Iver Gearsham
02-09-07, 05:20 PM Your objection for "getting something for nothing" as to why you don't approve.

I would ask you what are they getting? A risky form of travel? Most cargo hauling boats weight 30,000 pounds or more 30th lvl I am not how ever if I spend at 7th caster level all of my two 4th lvl spells lifting sections of ship for Three Days I could and have a few thousand pounds for cargo and PC's.
That effort is not cheap just look at the goods and services chart in the PHB for spell casting. Plenty of value spent on the project that may go poof in a moment.

Many people have the notion that as a renewable resource spells have little too no value.
And that’s just a load of bull used too justify you can't get something for nothing.
So the lowest HD the lowest BAB the poorest saves the years and gp poured into the practice of magic the time to recover the spells were what? A waste? Of no value done to accomplish nothing? But the mere destruction of monsters?

To memorize and use Suspension for my highest slots I have to be dammed sure that I don’t need to fight for my life in a day.
It also cost me 700 gp to buy the scroll and 400 gp to write it in my book that’s not free.
Now you might say I could get Suspension as part of leveling up but then I would have to buy a scroll of some other type like a combat spell to keep up my offensive abilities net result I still spend the money.

To recap Something is a small flying boat the Nothing is years of schooling thousands of gold pieces spent the use of spell slots valued at 280 gp each casting. Low physical heath, pathetic coordination, and the most expensive profession practice costs in D&D. why is that Nothing?
LESSEROF2EVILS
02-10-07, 02:11 AM Wow...okay, let’s take this a little bit at a time.

Your objection for "getting something for nothing" as to why you don't approve.

Generally speaking yes.

I would ask you what are they getting? A risky form of travel? Most cargo hauling boats weight 30,000 pounds or more 30th lvl I am not how ever if I spend at 7th caster level all of my two 4th lvl spells lifting sections of ship for Three Days I could and have a few thousand pounds for cargo and PC's.

Well, in the last example I used, a flying War Canoe capable of transporting up to 16 people/2 tons overland at a speed of 1-3 mph. This is possible at 8th level, and every level thereafter, once a War Canoe has been acquired. An expense of roughly 500 gp per character (assuming 4), assuming the canoe is actually purchased. A nominal expense, if the characters had already acquired the war canoe as a means of conveyance.

That effort is not cheap just look at the goods and services chart in the PHB for spell casting. Plenty of value spent on the project that may go poof in a moment.

Would you suggest that the arcane spellcasters services, are more valuable than those provided by a Fighter, Rogue, or Cleric? The best way to establish the value of a PC’s contribution, would be to compare it to the benefit provided by other classes. Assuming that all classes contribute evenly (which I will admit is questionable), the base value would be zero when compared to other classes.

Many people have the notion that as a renewable resource spells have little too no value. And that’s just a load of bull used too justify you can't get something for nothing.
So the lowest HD the lowest BAB the poorest saves the years and gp poured into the practice of magic the time to recover the spells were what? A waste? Of no value done to accomplish nothing? But the mere destruction of monsters?

Personally, I can’t speak to the notions of others. It is my belief though, that a wizard’s spells have a comparable cost to a Fighter’s Feats, a Rogue’s Sneak Attack dice, or a Cleric’s spells.

To memorize and use Suspension for my highest slots I have to be dammed sure that I don’t need to fight for my life in a day.

1d4+1 days/level actually. Also, by using a flying transport, you reduce the risk by reducing the number of threats.

It also cost me 700 gp to buy the scroll and 400 gp to write it in my book that’s not free. Now you might say I could get Suspension as part of leveling up but then I would have to buy a scroll of some other type like a combat spell to keep up my offensive abilities net result I still spend the money.

True. If you purchase the scroll, the spell does have an actual gold cost. Expenses of this kind are taken into account, when comparing a PC Wealth to the amount of treasure acquired at a given level (see DMG pg. 54). Between 8th and 9th level for example: a PC should earn roughly 1,300 gp to spend on non-renewable resources just like this.

To recap Something is a small flying boat the Nothing is years of schooling thousands of gold pieces spent the use of spell slots valued at 280 gp each casting. Low physical heath, pathetic coordination, and the most expensive profession practice costs in D&D. why is that Nothing?

What value would you place on a magic device that allowed you the same benefits, without any of the above mentioned personal costs?
LESSEROF2EVILS
02-10-07, 02:19 AM As players:

What value would you place on a magic item that allows your party extended overland flight?

How much would you pay for increased carrying capacity?

How much would you pay for the ability to secure your valuables onboard?

:D
Iver Gearsham
02-10-07, 03:39 PM LESSEROF2EVILS;11443181]
Would you suggest that the arcane spellcasters services, are more valuable than those provided by a Fighter, Rogue, or Cleric? The best way to establish the value of a PC’s contribution, would be to compare it to the benefit provided by other classes. Assuming that all classes contribute evenly (which I will admit is questionable), the base value would be zero when compared to other classes.First the value is all ready quantified in the PHB for the spells.

It doesn't matter what other classes value on serives are if they don't contribute to the building of the project In general because they can't effect the boat their effort goes to defending the boat when in action not in raising it from raw matierials the ground/water.

Personally, I can’t speak to the notions of others. It is my belief though, that a wizard’s spells have a comparable cost to a Fighter’s Feats, a Rogue’s Sneak Attack dice, or a Cleric’s spells. Which they pay nothing for, Are useable anytime no matter how many times they have used it before in the day and night except the cleric has simuler restrictions on casting but they pay nothing to aquier the entire available spell list for going up in the level a value that can easily be tens of thousands of gp to a wizard.

1d4+1 days/level actually. Also, by using a flying transport, you reduce the risk by reducing the number of threats. No you can just change threat types from orcs too flying monkeys if you like.
Something my Charaters all ways keep in mind when Flying by any means is how far do you want to fall? and fly accordingly.
Iver Gearsham
02-10-07, 03:55 PM LESSEROF2EVILS As players:

What value would you place on a magic item that allows your party extended overland flight?One temorary flight, each individual can be knocked off fall off, only one person is in control of the up and down regaurdless of sail or helm controls who can be taken out of action. it can be permanently Dispelled with one casting I wouldn't pay that much nor if an NPC knowingly board the ship as passanger.

How much would you pay for increased carrying capacity?
The point is I have all ready Paid for it and I want to collect.

How much would you pay for the ability to secure your valuables onboard?Secure is a relitave term big ships tend to be noticeable if left unguarded by pc's you might as well leave a sign saying free loot come here!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-07-07, 01:58 PM	From the SRD: Carpet of Flying: This rug is able to fly through the air as if affected by an overland flight spell of unlimited duration. The size, carrying capacity, and speed of the different carpets of flying are shown on the table below. Beautifully and intricately made, each carpet has its own command word to activate it—if the device is within voice range, the command word activates it, whether the speaker is on the rug or not. The carpet is then controlled by spoken directions. Size Capacity Speed Weight Market Price 5 ft. by 5 ft. 200 lb. 40 ft. 8 lb. 20,000 gp 5 ft. by 10 ft. 400 lb. 40 ft. 15 lb. 35,000 gp 10 ft. by 10 ft. 800 lb. 40 ft. 10 lb. 60,000 gp A carpet of flying can carry up to double its capacity, but doing so reduces its speed to 30 feet. It has average maneuverability, but a carpet of flying can still hover. Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, overland flight, permanency. Questions: 1) Does anyone know how the carpet of flying's market price was calculated? 2) How does size and weight affect the market price of a carpet of flying (ie. percentage of magic item creation cost at each size)? 3) Can someone explain the scaling system of the carpet of flying's market price? Anyone? Thanks
Zaistars69 02-07-07, 04:25 PM	1, it wasn't calculated it was set based on usefulness 2. They just ad libed it based on playtesting and usefullness. 3. Again no clear calculation was used, when I divided square footage by cost the scale slid, and not evenly.
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-07-07, 04:54 PM	Yeah, that's kinda what I came up with as well. The reason for the questions is this: If a player were to enchant a larger magic item, what would be the best way to calculate the cost/marketprice? Example: After discovering a flying carpet, and spending some time studing it, a player wants to "enchant" a keelboat in the same way. I'm willing to except this into the game, but what would be a reasonable price? Casting overland flight/permanency has a rough market price of 13,400 gp (assuming I allow this method), while creating a continuous use overland flight spell costs roughly 100,000 gp (equivalent to a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying which cost 20,000 gp). This is a fairly large spread to cover. I get a cost of 220,000 gp, when I try to increase the price by square footage using a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying as the base price (20,000 gp gp x11). This seems excessive to me, considering the impact the item will have on the game. Any thoughts?
Zaistars69 02-07-07, 05:08 PM	Yeah, that's kinda what I came up with as well. The reason for the questions is this: If a player were to enchant a larger magic item, what would be the best way to calculate the cost/marketprice? Example: After discovering a flying carpet, and spending some time studing it, a player wants to "enchant" a keelboat in the same way. I'm willing to except this into the game, but what would be a reasonable price? Casting overland flight/permanency has a rough market price of 13,400 gp (assuming I allow this method), while creating a continuous use overland flight spell costs roughly 100,000 gp (equivalent to a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying which cost 20,000 gp). This is a fairly large spread to cover. I get a cost of 220,000 gp, when I try to increase the price by square footage using a 5ft./5ft. carpet of flying as the base price (20,000 gp gp x11). This seems excessive to me, considering the impact the item will have on the game. Any thoughts? One of the Eberron sups has information on flying craft. Granted it uses elemental binding but if your players want something that large to fly they will need to use something more drastic than a 3rd level spell designed to lift the caster and stuff he could normally carry. And yes I know that a half dragon troll with the proper items and an 18 str to start can almost lift a keelboat. :)
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-07-07, 05:34 PM	Yeah. I looked through the Eberron supplements (Campaign Setting and Explorer's Handbook), but they contain a level of technology the game currently lacks. I'm in agreement with your concern about the ability of a player to cast a spell and make a sea vessel fly. Taking that into accout, we discussed the possibility of using the item creation rules to incoporate spells into a sea vessel - creating an airship. it seems a reasonable enough proposition, if I can find a balance of time/resources/xp vs the gain to the players. The development of the airship, also opens up possibilites for additional game hooks (ie. acquiring unique material components). This is never a bad thing... Thoughts? And yes I know that a half dragon troll with the proper items and an 18 str to start can almost lift a keelboat. :) This gave me a funny picture of Atlas (as a Half-Dragon Troll) carrying the weight of a keelboat on his shoulders, while his winged boots struggle to keep him alot. Thanks.
Fireclave 02-07-07, 05:40 PM	The Stronghold Builder's guide has rules for creating flying strongholds. Try basing your sea-to-airships on those rules.
Zaistars69 02-07-07, 05:43 PM	The Stronghold Builder's guide has rules for creating flying strongholds. Try basing your sea-to-airships on those rules. Not a bad idea, I'll have to take a look at that one too.
Iver Gearsham 02-07-07, 10:17 PM	Also look at FR's Shining South book they have a 4th lvl levitate spell called Suspension lifts 1,000 lbs per caster lvl lasts days per caster lvl. With it I make temporary flying ships zero exp cost much less gold cost unless you want it fully sea worthy as well. If it is destroyed or captured your out a boat not a boat load of money. The only problem is Dispell Magics and MDJ But anyone who has a brain on a flying ship gets a Ring of Feather Fall or mems the spell or has a one shot item/magic gizmo too keep gravity at bay. Immovable Rods make an interesting breaking system from falling or emergency stops.
Zaistars69 02-08-07, 10:39 AM	Also look at FR's Shining South book they have a 4th lvl levitate spell called Suspension lifts 1,000 lbs per caster lvl lasts days per caster lvl. With it I make temporary flying ships zero exp cost much less gold cost unless you want it fully sea worthy as well. If it is destroyed or captured your out a boat not a boat load of money. The only problem is Dispell Magics and MDJ But anyone who has a brain on a flying ship gets a Ring of Feather Fall or mems the spell or has a one shot item/magic gizmo too keep gravity at bay. Immovable Rods make an interesting breaking system from falling or emergency stops. I really don't think the immovable rod would help with the falling ship. The ship would most likely just break around the rod and continue falling. It would also be funny to be that guy in the cargo hold with the ring of feather fall when the ship's levitate gets dispelled. ooooh.
Decinious 02-08-07, 12:40 PM	Arms and Equipment Guide also has some stuff on Vechicles.
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-08-07, 03:15 PM	Also look at FR's Shining South book they have a 4th lvl levitate spell called Suspension lifts 1,000 lbs per caster lvl lasts days per caster lvl. With it I make temporary flying ships zero exp cost much less gold cost unless you want it fully sea worthy as well. If it is destroyed or captured your out a boat not a boat load of money. And I'd be fine with this, as long as they don't plan on using it as a means of conveyence. If it was going to be used as a combat vessel, or as a "magic item" then I'd personally require a little more than just a spell. If for no other reason, than the Halruaan Skyship from the same book costs 400,000 gp. The The Xen'drik Flying Boat here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070129a), uses a fly/mass fly spell to power it's flight. Note: does a 4th level spell, that move 1,000 lbs/level, for 1d4+1 days/level, at a speed of 45 feet a round seem like a bit much to anyone else. The only problem is Dispell Magics and MDJ But anyone who has a brain on a flying ship gets a Ring of Feather Fall or mems the spell or has a one shot item/magic gizmo too keep gravity at bay. There is also an anti-gravity "life perserver" called a Life Ring found on page 31 of the Eberron Explorer's Handbook that costs a mere 400 gp. Designed for just such a purpose. Thanks for the help people - keep it coming. :)
Iver Gearsham 02-08-07, 10:59 PM	And I'd be fine with this, as long as they don't plan on using it as a means of conveyence. If it was going to be used as a combat vessel, or as a "magic item" then I'd personally require a little more than just a spell. If for no other reason, than the Halruaan Skyship from the same book costs 400,000 gp. Wow! so as long as I Never use it never go anywhere with it I could have the Flying Queen Mary 2 all to myself?! Amazing! Just say "No" it is easier and with a good reason gets respect. Note: does a 4th level spell, that move 1,000 lbs/level, for 1d4+1 days/level, at a speed of 45 feet a round seem like a bit much to anyone else. 45 ft. of Vertical (up/down) movement only. Forward movment is by wind power or other magics/mechanical propultion.
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-09-07, 04:10 AM	Wow! so as long as I Never use it never go anywhere with it I could have the Flying Queen Mary 2 all to myself?! Amazing! Just say "No" it is easier and with a good reason gets respect. Fair enough! I suppose, if the mighty mage wishes to use his flying canoe as a fortress in the sky who am I to judge. ;) My biggest problem, is with the attempt to get something for nothing. The Flying Queen Mary 2, would be a bit much though. Actually, it's not that far off from the vessel in the Eberron Explorer's Handbook, except that the airship cost 92,000 gp. 45 ft. of Vertical (up/down) movement only. Forward movment is by wind power or other magics/mechanical propultion. Sorry, should have been more clear. My issue is more with the fact that it allows for movement of substantial weight, at the cost of a spell slot every 1d4+1 days/level. Take a vessel with sails, a War Canoe for example: lift the vessel up into the air, and move at 10 ft. x wind speed per round. Unless of course "the object remains in place for the duration of the spell" is meant to prohit outside forces from changing it's position...
Iver Gearsham 02-09-07, 05:20 PM	Your objection for "getting something for nothing" as to why you don't approve. I would ask you what are they getting? A risky form of travel? Most cargo hauling boats weight 30,000 pounds or more 30th lvl I am not how ever if I spend at 7th caster level all of my two 4th lvl spells lifting sections of ship for Three Days I could and have a few thousand pounds for cargo and PC's. That effort is not cheap just look at the goods and services chart in the PHB for spell casting. Plenty of value spent on the project that may go poof in a moment. Many people have the notion that as a renewable resource spells have little too no value. And that’s just a load of bull used too justify you can't get something for nothing. So the lowest HD the lowest BAB the poorest saves the years and gp poured into the practice of magic the time to recover the spells were what? A waste? Of no value done to accomplish nothing? But the mere destruction of monsters? To memorize and use Suspension for my highest slots I have to be dammed sure that I don’t need to fight for my life in a day. It also cost me 700 gp to buy the scroll and 400 gp to write it in my book that’s not free. Now you might say I could get Suspension as part of leveling up but then I would have to buy a scroll of some other type like a combat spell to keep up my offensive abilities net result I still spend the money. To recap Something is a small flying boat the Nothing is years of schooling thousands of gold pieces spent the use of spell slots valued at 280 gp each casting. Low physical heath, pathetic coordination, and the most expensive profession practice costs in D&D. why is that Nothing?
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-10-07, 02:11 AM	Wow...okay, let’s take this a little bit at a time. Your objection for "getting something for nothing" as to why you don't approve. Generally speaking yes. I would ask you what are they getting? A risky form of travel? Most cargo hauling boats weight 30,000 pounds or more 30th lvl I am not how ever if I spend at 7th caster level all of my two 4th lvl spells lifting sections of ship for Three Days I could and have a few thousand pounds for cargo and PC's. Well, in the last example I used, a flying War Canoe capable of transporting up to 16 people/2 tons overland at a speed of 1-3 mph. This is possible at 8th level, and every level thereafter, once a War Canoe has been acquired. An expense of roughly 500 gp per character (assuming 4), assuming the canoe is actually purchased. A nominal expense, if the characters had already acquired the war canoe as a means of conveyance. That effort is not cheap just look at the goods and services chart in the PHB for spell casting. Plenty of value spent on the project that may go poof in a moment. Would you suggest that the arcane spellcasters services, are more valuable than those provided by a Fighter, Rogue, or Cleric? The best way to establish the value of a PC’s contribution, would be to compare it to the benefit provided by other classes. Assuming that all classes contribute evenly (which I will admit is questionable), the base value would be zero when compared to other classes. Many people have the notion that as a renewable resource spells have little too no value. And that’s just a load of bull used too justify you can't get something for nothing. So the lowest HD the lowest BAB the poorest saves the years and gp poured into the practice of magic the time to recover the spells were what? A waste? Of no value done to accomplish nothing? But the mere destruction of monsters? Personally, I can’t speak to the notions of others. It is my belief though, that a wizard’s spells have a comparable cost to a Fighter’s Feats, a Rogue’s Sneak Attack dice, or a Cleric’s spells. To memorize and use Suspension for my highest slots I have to be dammed sure that I don’t need to fight for my life in a day. 1d4+1 days/level actually. Also, by using a flying transport, you reduce the risk by reducing the number of threats. It also cost me 700 gp to buy the scroll and 400 gp to write it in my book that’s not free. Now you might say I could get Suspension as part of leveling up but then I would have to buy a scroll of some other type like a combat spell to keep up my offensive abilities net result I still spend the money. True. If you purchase the scroll, the spell does have an actual gold cost. Expenses of this kind are taken into account, when comparing a PC Wealth to the amount of treasure acquired at a given level (see DMG pg. 54). Between 8th and 9th level for example: a PC should earn roughly 1,300 gp to spend on non-renewable resources just like this. To recap Something is a small flying boat the Nothing is years of schooling thousands of gold pieces spent the use of spell slots valued at 280 gp each casting. Low physical heath, pathetic coordination, and the most expensive profession practice costs in D&D. why is that Nothing? What value would you place on a magic device that allowed you the same benefits, without any of the above mentioned personal costs?
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-10-07, 02:19 AM	As players: What value would you place on a magic item that allows your party extended overland flight? How much would you pay for increased carrying capacity? How much would you pay for the ability to secure your valuables onboard? :D
Iver Gearsham 02-10-07, 03:39 PM	LESSEROF2EVILS;11443181] Would you suggest that the arcane spellcasters services, are more valuable than those provided by a Fighter, Rogue, or Cleric? The best way to establish the value of a PC’s contribution, would be to compare it to the benefit provided by other classes. Assuming that all classes contribute evenly (which I will admit is questionable), the base value would be zero when compared to other classes.First the value is all ready quantified in the PHB for the spells. It doesn't matter what other classes value on serives are if they don't contribute to the building of the project In general because they can't effect the boat their effort goes to defending the boat when in action not in raising it from raw matierials the ground/water. Personally, I can’t speak to the notions of others. It is my belief though, that a wizard’s spells have a comparable cost to a Fighter’s Feats, a Rogue’s Sneak Attack dice, or a Cleric’s spells. Which they pay nothing for, Are useable anytime no matter how many times they have used it before in the day and night except the cleric has simuler restrictions on casting but they pay nothing to aquier the entire available spell list for going up in the level a value that can easily be tens of thousands of gp to a wizard. 1d4+1 days/level actually. Also, by using a flying transport, you reduce the risk by reducing the number of threats. No you can just change threat types from orcs too flying monkeys if you like. Something my Charaters all ways keep in mind when Flying by any means is how far do you want to fall? and fly accordingly.
Iver Gearsham 02-10-07, 03:55 PM	LESSEROF2EVILS As players: What value would you place on a magic item that allows your party extended overland flight?One temorary flight, each individual can be knocked off fall off, only one person is in control of the up and down regaurdless of sail or helm controls who can be taken out of action. it can be permanently Dispelled with one casting I wouldn't pay that much nor if an NPC knowingly board the ship as passanger. How much would you pay for increased carrying capacity? The point is I have all ready Paid for it and I want to collect. How much would you pay for the ability to secure your valuables onboard?Secure is a relitave term big ships tend to be noticeable if left unguarded by pc's you might as well leave a sign saying free loot come here!