Carpet of Flying ?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Carpet of Flying ?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dobes_vandermeer
09-09-04, 08:05 PM I'm a little perplexed about how to deal with the Carpet of Flying. The rules say it behaves like the "Overland Flight"/"Fly" spell, and yet it uses voice commands for control, it carries you instead of making you fly yourself, and allows you to carry passengers - none of which is consistent with "Overland Flight"/"Fly".

The source of my confusion(s) stems from questions like:

When the carpet moves, does that use your movement?
What if you are just a passenger, does it use your move then as well?
Does moving the carpet 5' count as a 5-foot step even if you are a passenger?

A player has proposed you treat this as if everyone took the same move action (be it a 5' step or not) as the person controlling the carpet's last move action.
But: what if the carpet does a double move? This is a full-round action, therefore nobody on the carpet has any actions left (besides free actions). It also means they have no movement left and cannot get off the carpet (although I'd probably allow them to do so anyway).
What if the carpet does a charge? Whose AC and AB are affected?

I've considered inventing my own rules for this based on realistic premises. For example, if you want to stand and/or fight while on a moving carpet you should have to make Balance and Concentration checks (DC 10 while moving, 5 while still). If you make the balance check you can treat the carpet as an uneven surface, if you fail by 1-4 it costs you your move action that turn, and if you fail by 5 or more you fall prone (on the carpet).

This way, the carpet acts as a moving platform and if you want to stand on a moving platform you need to be able to balance yourself (as in real life). The DCs are not difficult (carpets move at about 8 km/h or 5 mph) so you can take 10, but if you have less than 5 ranks in balance you'll lose your dex bonus to AC. Its an easy task to remain standing (bear in mind that you only need a 5 on a moving carpet to stay standing, you just lose your move action).

Do any of you have some ideas here? Are my rules overcomplicating things? Are my questions too deep? My only problem is that my players tend to know the rules, and get frustrated if I adjudicate vagueries such as this differently than they would.

We emailed wizards customer service and they quoted the book: "Treat it as if everyone were affected by the fly spell." Sadly, this doesn't clarify anything for me at all...
mithroch
02-07-07, 10:30 AM Has anybody responded to this (really old post) else where? I'm looking for some clarification myself. Really I think it comes down to deciding if commanding movement is a standard, move, or free action.
tarkin
02-07-07, 11:24 AM When the carpet moves, it uses it's own movement rates and quality (good, poor, etc.) The carpet does not use up any of your movement whatsoever.

But it takes a standard action to command the carpet, just like any other magic item with a command word.

If you are a passenger, you have a Full Action to do whatever you want to do.

The carpet can not charge. It is not a creature, and has no attacks.

There are already rules for doing things on the carpet. It is considered vigorous movement, and you may need to take a concentration check. I would not use a balance check, as people should rarely be moving around that much on the carpet.

-------
Your responses from WoTC however, appears to be saying that everyone on the carpet has to spend a movement action when it flies, and a double move if it double flies. If you use that ruling, then I would downgrade the pilot action from standard action to control to standard action to activate, free action to control, but he still has to do the move action(s) if the carpet moves.
mvincent
02-07-07, 12:56 PM When the carpet moves, does that use your movement?Yes (assuming you are the controller).

What if you are just a passenger, does it use your move then as well?No. Treat it as being similar to being a passenger on mount, which uses the following rules from the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a):
"You and your mount make separate initiative rolls. Because there are some full-round actions you cannot perform while your mount moves (see Parts Three and Four), you must delay until after your mount's turn to use such actions if your mount's turn in the initiative order comes before your own turn comes. Even then your mount's movements could keep you from performing your intended action.

When it's finally your turn to act, you must succeed on a DC 10 Ride check to adjust your actions to fit your mount's uncontrolled movements. The check is a move action for you, but it does not provoke attacks of opportunity. (You're looking after yourself, not your mount.) If you fail, your mount's movements keep you from taking any actions this round. If you succeed, you can use a standard action. Just remember that you're allowing your mount to take you where it will, so your options might prove limited."

Does moving the carpet 5' count as a 5-foot step even if you are a passenger?No

I've considered inventing my own rules for this I would allow a balance check to replace the ride check mentioned in the above rules.
Zaistars69
02-07-07, 04:20 PM Unless there is some sort of FAQ or Rules of the game it would be a standard action to activate with a command word and merely a free action to command it where to go (as speaking is only a free action). The reasoning behind this is under the item description it says; "The carpet is then controlled by spoken directions"

I agree with MVincent that you would treat it as a mount for purposes of when you can do things and what actions can be taken. It might be more useful to use this information from the SRD:
"Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally"

There is more data but this should help clear things up. Even a 5' 'step' with a carpet should be OK with a full attack because you still are taking only a small amount of time with doing it since commanding it should be a free action.
Nezkrul
02-07-07, 07:41 PM If you use that ruling, then I would downgrade the pilot action from standard action to control to standard action to activate, free action to control, but he still has to do the move action(s) if the carpet moves.

Speaking is a free action in combat; hence once you take the standard action to activate the carpet, it takes free actions to tell it where to go. I guess in your games flying carpets are nerfed and cost less? because this is how they work normally.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dobes_vandermeer 09-09-04, 08:05 PM	I'm a little perplexed about how to deal with the Carpet of Flying. The rules say it behaves like the "Overland Flight"/"Fly" spell, and yet it uses voice commands for control, it carries you instead of making you fly yourself, and allows you to carry passengers - none of which is consistent with "Overland Flight"/"Fly". The source of my confusion(s) stems from questions like: When the carpet moves, does that use your movement? What if you are just a passenger, does it use your move then as well? Does moving the carpet 5' count as a 5-foot step even if you are a passenger? A player has proposed you treat this as if everyone took the same move action (be it a 5' step or not) as the person controlling the carpet's last move action. But: what if the carpet does a double move? This is a full-round action, therefore nobody on the carpet has any actions left (besides free actions). It also means they have no movement left and cannot get off the carpet (although I'd probably allow them to do so anyway). What if the carpet does a charge? Whose AC and AB are affected? I've considered inventing my own rules for this based on realistic premises. For example, if you want to stand and/or fight while on a moving carpet you should have to make Balance and Concentration checks (DC 10 while moving, 5 while still). If you make the balance check you can treat the carpet as an uneven surface, if you fail by 1-4 it costs you your move action that turn, and if you fail by 5 or more you fall prone (on the carpet). This way, the carpet acts as a moving platform and if you want to stand on a moving platform you need to be able to balance yourself (as in real life). The DCs are not difficult (carpets move at about 8 km/h or 5 mph) so you can take 10, but if you have less than 5 ranks in balance you'll lose your dex bonus to AC. Its an easy task to remain standing (bear in mind that you only need a 5 on a moving carpet to stay standing, you just lose your move action). Do any of you have some ideas here? Are my rules overcomplicating things? Are my questions too deep? My only problem is that my players tend to know the rules, and get frustrated if I adjudicate vagueries such as this differently than they would. We emailed wizards customer service and they quoted the book: "Treat it as if everyone were affected by the fly spell." Sadly, this doesn't clarify anything for me at all...
mithroch 02-07-07, 10:30 AM	Has anybody responded to this (really old post) else where? I'm looking for some clarification myself. Really I think it comes down to deciding if commanding movement is a standard, move, or free action.
tarkin 02-07-07, 11:24 AM	When the carpet moves, it uses it's own movement rates and quality (good, poor, etc.) The carpet does not use up any of your movement whatsoever. But it takes a standard action to command the carpet, just like any other magic item with a command word. If you are a passenger, you have a Full Action to do whatever you want to do. The carpet can not charge. It is not a creature, and has no attacks. There are already rules for doing things on the carpet. It is considered vigorous movement, and you may need to take a concentration check. I would not use a balance check, as people should rarely be moving around that much on the carpet. ------- Your responses from WoTC however, appears to be saying that everyone on the carpet has to spend a movement action when it flies, and a double move if it double flies. If you use that ruling, then I would downgrade the pilot action from standard action to control to standard action to activate, free action to control, but he still has to do the move action(s) if the carpet moves.
mvincent 02-07-07, 12:56 PM	When the carpet moves, does that use your movement?Yes (assuming you are the controller). What if you are just a passenger, does it use your move then as well?No. Treat it as being similar to being a passenger on mount, which uses the following rules from the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a): "You and your mount make separate initiative rolls. Because there are some full-round actions you cannot perform while your mount moves (see Parts Three and Four), you must delay until after your mount's turn to use such actions if your mount's turn in the initiative order comes before your own turn comes. Even then your mount's movements could keep you from performing your intended action. When it's finally your turn to act, you must succeed on a DC 10 Ride check to adjust your actions to fit your mount's uncontrolled movements. The check is a move action for you, but it does not provoke attacks of opportunity. (You're looking after yourself, not your mount.) If you fail, your mount's movements keep you from taking any actions this round. If you succeed, you can use a standard action. Just remember that you're allowing your mount to take you where it will, so your options might prove limited." Does moving the carpet 5' count as a 5-foot step even if you are a passenger?No I've considered inventing my own rules for this I would allow a balance check to replace the ride check mentioned in the above rules.
Zaistars69 02-07-07, 04:20 PM	Unless there is some sort of FAQ or Rules of the game it would be a standard action to activate with a command word and merely a free action to command it where to go (as speaking is only a free action). The reasoning behind this is under the item description it says; "The carpet is then controlled by spoken directions" I agree with MVincent that you would treat it as a mount for purposes of when you can do things and what actions can be taken. It might be more useful to use this information from the SRD: "Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action. When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted. If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge). You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally" There is more data but this should help clear things up. Even a 5' 'step' with a carpet should be OK with a full attack because you still are taking only a small amount of time with doing it since commanding it should be a free action.
Nezkrul 02-07-07, 07:41 PM	If you use that ruling, then I would downgrade the pilot action from standard action to control to standard action to activate, free action to control, but he still has to do the move action(s) if the carpet moves. Speaking is a free action in combat; hence once you take the standard action to activate the carpet, it takes free actions to tell it where to go. I guess in your games flying carpets are nerfed and cost less? because this is how they work normally.