Casting with a shield, and other queries [Archive] - Wizards Community

Casting with a shield, and other queries [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zinger2099
10-14-07, 02:32 PM I'm curious about somantic components and how they work with shields. Obviously, with a buckler, you can make use of them, however, with a regular shield, I am unsure. In the description for a light shield, it states that you can carry other items with your shield arm, other then a weapon. This leads me to believe that if you can have your hand free to hold other items, you are capable of making the movements required for a somantic component. I'm curious about how this works? Can they cast somantic spells with a light shield and another hand full?

In addition to that, when it came to two handed weapons and spells, I've personally always let them cast their somantic components, my reasoning there was that you need two hands to effectively use the sword, but you can still hold it in one hand, so that if you needed one hand handy for a somantic component you could release your sword of your second hand and cast away. This is just how I've always done it, but I am curious to know what anyone else thinks.

Finally, in regards to ranged touch attacks, do they function like regular touch attacks? I'm specifically referring to the fact that with a touch attack if you miss your opponent the spell charge remains in your hand. With a range touch attack, my argument was that in order to hit them with, say, the acid splash, you need to throw the orb of acid at them. So it doesn't make sense that the charge would stay in their hand if they miss. Am I incorrect in assuming this? What are your thoughts?

I appreciate your help. ^_^
RavenDrake
10-15-07, 12:04 AM From the FAQ
My DM says that my cleric has to drop his morningstar
to cast spells. Is he right?
Yes and no. To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component,
you must gesture freely with at least one hand. (Player’s
Handbook, page 140) A cleric (or any caster, for that matter)
who holds a weapon in one hand and wears a heavy shield on
the other arm doesn’t have a hand free to cast a spell with a
somatic component (which includes most spells in the game).
To cast such a spell, the character must either drop or sheathe
his weapon.
Another simple option is for the cleric to carry a buckler or
light shield instead of a heavy shield. The buckler leaves one
hand free for spellcasting, and you don’t even lose the
buckler’s shield bonus to AC when casting with that hand. The
light shield doesn’t give you a free hand for spellcasting, but
since you can hold an item in the same hand that holds the light
shield, you could switch your weapon to that hand to free up a
hand for spellcasting. (You can’t use the weapon while it’s held
in the same hand as your shield, of course.) The rules don’t
state what type of action is required to switch hands on a
weapon, but it seems reasonable to assume that it’s the
equivalent of drawing a weapon (a move action that doesn’t
provoke attacks of opportunity).

For two handed weapons, I'd say it should be approximately the same. Officially, you'd have to "drop" the weapon with one hand(holding it, non combatively, with the other) to cast then "draw", or ready, the weapon as a move action to use it. If you're willing to let the character "freehand" with a two handed weapon to cast with no penalty, then letting them switch off hands with a light shield should be the same.

For ranged touch attacks unless the attack specfically states that you hold a charge, or have multiple missles at your disposal(such as Produce Flame) then, no, missing with Ranged Touch spell is the same as missing with any other ammunition, the attack is simply a failure and the used missle is gone.
Kouk
10-15-07, 12:10 AM I'm curious about somantic components and how they work with shields. Obviously, with a buckler, you can make use of them, however, with a regular shield, I am unsure. In the description for a light shield, it states that you can carry other items with your shield arm, other then a weapon. This leads me to believe that if you can have your hand free to hold other items, you are capable of making the movements required for a somantic component. I'm curious about how this works? Can they cast somantic spells with a light shield and another hand full?

In addition to that, when it came to two handed weapons and spells, I've personally always let them cast their somantic components, my reasoning there was that you need two hands to effectively use the sword, but you can still hold it in one hand, so that if you needed one hand handy for a somantic component you could release your sword of your second hand and cast away. This is just how I've always done it, but I am curious to know what anyone else thinks.

Finally, in regards to ranged touch attacks, do they function like regular touch attacks? I'm specifically referring to the fact that with a touch attack if you miss your opponent the spell charge remains in your hand. With a range touch attack, my argument was that in order to hit them with, say, the acid splash, you need to throw the orb of acid at them. So it doesn't make sense that the charge would stay in their hand if they miss. Am I incorrect in assuming this? What are your thoughts?

I appreciate your help. ^_^

You seem to be making the correct rulings to me. There isn't really a hard rule for the two-handed weapons issue, some people play it the way you have said, and some don't.
Talcon
10-15-07, 09:36 AM theres a shield gauntlet that lets you cast with a heavy shield I think its in race of stone
Kouk
10-15-07, 09:56 AM theres a shield gauntlet that lets you cast with a heavy shield I think its in race of stone

That's correct, but it is an Exotic Shield so you have to take the Exotic Shield Proficiency for it. You still can't hold a weapon in the shield hand, so it is like a beefier Light Shield.
QOShea
10-15-07, 10:07 AM There is also a feat called Somatic Weaponry which lets you cast while holding a weapon.
Black Mantha
10-15-07, 10:16 AM My interpretation was that you can't cast with a hand holding a shield. If you can pick up things with with it, it's because the shield only has a single strap across the hand, leaving the fingers free. That's enough to hold something, but not to wield a weapon or cast a spell. Heavy shields, on the other hand, you have to grab a handlebar to wield it properly.

This all isn't written down, but that's how I see it.

EDIT: wrote "can" instead of "can't"
Shadezeta
10-18-07, 12:53 AM Two words, Shielded Casting. A feat from the races of stone which when you have a shield readied you no longer provoke attacks of opportunity when casting spells. and if you add a shield sheath to it from the same book I think you can draw and store a melee weapon as a free action. Always letting you have a free hand for casting spells.
Zinger2099
10-18-07, 01:50 AM Thanks Shadezeta for the info. That's useful knowledge, but I wasn't exactly looking for a better way to cast spells with a shield from a player's perspective, I'm simply looking for how to use shields with spells from a DM's perspective. Nice idea though.

Thanks everyone who replied (especially Ravendrake), this has proven quite helpful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zinger2099 10-14-07, 02:32 PM	I'm curious about somantic components and how they work with shields. Obviously, with a buckler, you can make use of them, however, with a regular shield, I am unsure. In the description for a light shield, it states that you can carry other items with your shield arm, other then a weapon. This leads me to believe that if you can have your hand free to hold other items, you are capable of making the movements required for a somantic component. I'm curious about how this works? Can they cast somantic spells with a light shield and another hand full? In addition to that, when it came to two handed weapons and spells, I've personally always let them cast their somantic components, my reasoning there was that you need two hands to effectively use the sword, but you can still hold it in one hand, so that if you needed one hand handy for a somantic component you could release your sword of your second hand and cast away. This is just how I've always done it, but I am curious to know what anyone else thinks. Finally, in regards to ranged touch attacks, do they function like regular touch attacks? I'm specifically referring to the fact that with a touch attack if you miss your opponent the spell charge remains in your hand. With a range touch attack, my argument was that in order to hit them with, say, the acid splash, you need to throw the orb of acid at them. So it doesn't make sense that the charge would stay in their hand if they miss. Am I incorrect in assuming this? What are your thoughts? I appreciate your help. ^_^
RavenDrake 10-15-07, 12:04 AM	From the FAQ My DM says that my cleric has to drop his morningstar to cast spells. Is he right? Yes and no. To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. (Player’s Handbook, page 140) A cleric (or any caster, for that matter) who holds a weapon in one hand and wears a heavy shield on the other arm doesn’t have a hand free to cast a spell with a somatic component (which includes most spells in the game). To cast such a spell, the character must either drop or sheathe his weapon. Another simple option is for the cleric to carry a buckler or light shield instead of a heavy shield. The buckler leaves one hand free for spellcasting, and you don’t even lose the buckler’s shield bonus to AC when casting with that hand. The light shield doesn’t give you a free hand for spellcasting, but since you can hold an item in the same hand that holds the light shield, you could switch your weapon to that hand to free up a hand for spellcasting. (You can’t use the weapon while it’s held in the same hand as your shield, of course.) The rules don’t state what type of action is required to switch hands on a weapon, but it seems reasonable to assume that it’s the equivalent of drawing a weapon (a move action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity). For two handed weapons, I'd say it should be approximately the same. Officially, you'd have to "drop" the weapon with one hand(holding it, non combatively, with the other) to cast then "draw", or ready, the weapon as a move action to use it. If you're willing to let the character "freehand" with a two handed weapon to cast with no penalty, then letting them switch off hands with a light shield should be the same. For ranged touch attacks unless the attack specfically states that you hold a charge, or have multiple missles at your disposal(such as Produce Flame) then, no, missing with Ranged Touch spell is the same as missing with any other ammunition, the attack is simply a failure and the used missle is gone.
Kouk 10-15-07, 12:10 AM	I'm curious about somantic components and how they work with shields. Obviously, with a buckler, you can make use of them, however, with a regular shield, I am unsure. In the description for a light shield, it states that you can carry other items with your shield arm, other then a weapon. This leads me to believe that if you can have your hand free to hold other items, you are capable of making the movements required for a somantic component. I'm curious about how this works? Can they cast somantic spells with a light shield and another hand full? In addition to that, when it came to two handed weapons and spells, I've personally always let them cast their somantic components, my reasoning there was that you need two hands to effectively use the sword, but you can still hold it in one hand, so that if you needed one hand handy for a somantic component you could release your sword of your second hand and cast away. This is just how I've always done it, but I am curious to know what anyone else thinks. Finally, in regards to ranged touch attacks, do they function like regular touch attacks? I'm specifically referring to the fact that with a touch attack if you miss your opponent the spell charge remains in your hand. With a range touch attack, my argument was that in order to hit them with, say, the acid splash, you need to throw the orb of acid at them. So it doesn't make sense that the charge would stay in their hand if they miss. Am I incorrect in assuming this? What are your thoughts? I appreciate your help. ^_^ You seem to be making the correct rulings to me. There isn't really a hard rule for the two-handed weapons issue, some people play it the way you have said, and some don't.
Talcon 10-15-07, 09:36 AM	theres a shield gauntlet that lets you cast with a heavy shield I think its in race of stone
Kouk 10-15-07, 09:56 AM	theres a shield gauntlet that lets you cast with a heavy shield I think its in race of stone That's correct, but it is an Exotic Shield so you have to take the Exotic Shield Proficiency for it. You still can't hold a weapon in the shield hand, so it is like a beefier Light Shield.
QOShea 10-15-07, 10:07 AM	There is also a feat called Somatic Weaponry which lets you cast while holding a weapon.
Black Mantha 10-15-07, 10:16 AM	My interpretation was that you can't cast with a hand holding a shield. If you can pick up things with with it, it's because the shield only has a single strap across the hand, leaving the fingers free. That's enough to hold something, but not to wield a weapon or cast a spell. Heavy shields, on the other hand, you have to grab a handlebar to wield it properly. This all isn't written down, but that's how I see it. EDIT: wrote "can" instead of "can't"
Shadezeta 10-18-07, 12:53 AM	Two words, Shielded Casting. A feat from the races of stone which when you have a shield readied you no longer provoke attacks of opportunity when casting spells. and if you add a shield sheath to it from the same book I think you can draw and store a melee weapon as a free action. Always letting you have a free hand for casting spells.
Zinger2099 10-18-07, 01:50 AM	Thanks Shadezeta for the info. That's useful knowledge, but I wasn't exactly looking for a better way to cast spells with a shield from a player's perspective, I'm simply looking for how to use shields with spells from a DM's perspective. Nice idea though. Thanks everyone who replied (especially Ravendrake), this has proven quite helpful.