Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moon-Lancer 05-19-05, 05:43 PM	Awhile ago, someone broke up the prices for celestial armor so it could be applied to other armors. Does anyone have that link? it might have been a few months ago. I really wanted to apply it to a chain shirt. Does anyone have a link to thread I am thinking about?
Colmarr 05-20-05, 01:00 AM	I don't have the link, but the math isn't too hard. Celestial Armor: This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor, weighs 20 pounds, and it allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day. Faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be good, fly; Price 22,400 gp +3 chainmail is normally 9,300gp, has a max Dex bonus of +2, armour check penalty of -4, and arcane spell failure of 30%. So, Celestial armour (if you were to use it as a "template") increases Max Dex bonus by +6, decreases the armour check penalty by 2, decreases arcane spell failure by 15%, and grants the ability to fly on command 1/per day; all at a cost of 13,100gp. I'd suggest you restrict it to medium armour, as otherwise you'll run into situations where the drop in armour check penalty and arcane spell failure in fact goes so far that there should be a bonus. Whilst that is obviously not going to happen, your players will start asking for a discount in the price "because I'm not getting the full effect".
DarknessEternal 05-20-05, 01:31 AM	That's like saying since +1 heavy fortification chainmail would cost 36300, that you could also add heavy fortification to +5 armor for 35000. Magic items don't work that way.
Colmarr 05-20-05, 01:42 AM	Actually, it's not. There are many examples of armour abilities in the DMG that have a set price, rather than a price adjustment. They tend to be standard abilities that don't scale with the level of the item. None of the adjustments granted by Celestial Armour scale with the level of the armour, so why should they have a price adjustment rather than a set price? P.S. I don't claim to be an expert in this, and I certainly could be wrong, but if you think I am, you'll need to establish why, not just assert it.
Moon-Lancer 05-20-05, 02:14 AM	I’m a player, and I I’m not complaining if my dm lets me put this on a chainshirt even though it may lesson by more then 0 even though this is impossible. I do not mind wasting any of the dex or armor check penalty. I really just wanted it for the high dex and ability to conceal it. I also was wishing for a more complicated break down, as I don’t really care for the flying abilities. I wish the search was up. Thanks for the break down so far. Does anyone have a more detailed one?
colm_l 05-20-05, 04:29 AM	I’m a player, and I I’m not complaining if my dm lets me put this on a chainshirt even though it may lesson by more then 0 even though this is impossible. I do not mind wasting any of the dex or armor check penalty. I really just wanted it for the high dex and ability to conceal it. I also was wishing for a more complicated break down, as I don’t really care for the flying abilities. I wish the search was up. Thanks for the break down so far. Does anyone have a more detailed one? If you have MOF, try this. (Glamoured) Mithral chainshirt of nimbleness Nimbleness is a +1 bonus that gives an additional +2 to max dex & takes 1 off the check penalties
DarknessEternal 05-20-05, 09:09 AM	Actually, it's not. There are many examples of armour abilities in the DMG that have a set price, rather than a price adjustment. They tend to be standard abilities that don't scale with the level of the item. None of the adjustments granted by Celestial Armour scale with the level of the armour, so why should they have a price adjustment rather than a set price? Almost no enhancements scale in any way for armor, that does not stop almost all of them from being priced as an enhancement bonus. Many of the bonuses gained by Celestial armor are gained through enhancement bonuses (nimbleness for increased max dex, twilight for reduced ASF). However, materials also could provide some of the bonuses (mithral specifically increases max dex and reduces ASF). Celestial armor is priced as if it were a specific item not related to to either though, which is appropriate considering it's not a trait you can add to armors in general. P.S. I don't claim to be an expert in this, and I certainly could be wrong, but if you think I am, you'll need to establish why, not just assert it. Proof by lack of proof is one of the most ignorant logical fallacies that can be made.
Tony Vargas 05-20-05, 05:03 PM	Reverse-engineering a unique item like Celestial Mail or a Sunblade or whatever is almost certain to net you some under-priced abilities. Items like that, in effect, get a 'package discount.' Celestial mail, for instance, is something of a perk for being a good-aligned caster w/Craft Arms & Armor, it bundles a very desireable Max-DEX with a less awesome armor check penalty (a mithral chain shirt, in contrast, for instance has only +6 Max DEX, but no armor check penalty), and it only comes in two colors :rolleyes: , and is always +3, never +5...