Celestial Armor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Celestial Armor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Irishevil
10-15-05, 03:38 PM the description says it is light armor, but is it considered light for the purposes of armor proficiency , it is Mithral armor which says 'Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations'

My question is can a Ranger wear this without penalty?
primemover003
10-15-05, 07:13 PM It's not mithril, it's either silver or gold. As for whether your Ranger can wear Chainmail (which is normally classed as Medium) the Official consensus seems to be if they say it's considered light, then it's light. Many disagree, especially when it comes to mithril fullplate and barbarians, but the powers that be keep saying it's light (or Medium in the fullplate case).

If you're the DM make a judgement call, if you're a player ask your DM.
Verelor
10-15-05, 07:24 PM Wait...if it's treated as light then it's not light? This defies common logic.
primemover003
10-15-05, 07:49 PM Well think of it this way. Fullplate is fairly bulky armor compared to a suit of leather. Now if you change the material it's made out of it's a helluva lot lighter, but it's still fairly intricate armor. The whole point of Armor Proficiency is that certain classes are taught to don, move, and fight in different armor types.

A Barbarian is not going to feel as comfortable in Fullplate because it limits his movement and slows him down. He's also not TRAINED to wear an articulated suit of plate. How to bend, turn, climb, jump, etc... Now if it's made of Mithril it's Armor check penalty goes down, it's weight goes down, it's ASF% goes down, and it doesn't effect speed as much... however it's still a suit of Full Plate the way it moves hasn't changed, just the ease of said movement.
Kendrick
10-15-05, 09:12 PM Mithral Medium armor would count as light armor with regards to rules that say things like "you can use this ability only as long as you wear light armor or no armor". Mithral Heavy Armor would work the same way for abilities that are restricted to medium armor.

But either way, you have to have proficiency or you take the ACP to attack rolls and so on.
DarknessEternal
10-16-05, 05:19 AM But either way, you have to have proficiency or you take the ACP to attack rolls and so on.

Almost, but not quite. Mithril Breastplates are light armor in EVERY way. Mithril Plate is medium armor in EVERY way.

Every single book refers to them like that. Races of the Wild even has all the mithril possibilities on their chart of armor, and in descriptions, as being in the lighter category.

Mithril Plate is never heavy armor.
marcus_antonius
10-16-05, 06:48 AM hmmm.....

mithral mountainplate (races of stone) IS indeed heavy armor ;)

sorry...*g* just couldnt resist

anyway: In my group we handle mithral armors as one category lighter for ALL purposes...including proficiency

my 2cp
Kendrick
10-16-05, 01:06 PM Almost, but not quite. Mithril Breastplates are light armor in EVERY way. Mithril Plate is medium armor in EVERY way.

Every single book refers to them like that. Races of the Wild even has all the mithril possibilities on their chart of armor, and in descriptions, as being in the lighter category.

Mithril Plate is never heavy armor.

Look at the actual text of the mithral description in the DMG. It says you treat the armor as "one category lighter for movement and other restrictions". Is non-proficiency a movement or restriction? No. Lack of proficiency doesn't mean you can't wear it, it means you take a penalty when you do. This is pure house rule, RAW you have to have proficiency or you take ACP to attack rolls etc.
DarknessEternal
10-16-05, 04:31 PM Look at the actual text of the mithral description in the DMG.

Why would you ignore a newer rule made by the same people who wrote the DMG?
Kendrick
10-16-05, 05:49 PM OK, I just checked the 3.5 FAQ, and I was completely wrong. Basically what it says is that the text doesn't allow it but it's since been officially ruled to function as lighter armor for proficiency.

And I would ignore any rule from Races of the Wild, or whatever, because I wouldn't consider it core unless any rules changes in it are added to official errata or FAQ.
K_Man
10-16-05, 05:51 PM Why would you ignore a newer rule made by the same people who wrote the DMG?

You answered it with your question there. You have to take everything they write with a grain of salt. Everyone should be able to agree that, even with hundreds of playtesters listed in the book, plenty of stuff was missed, and with tons of supposed proofreading, just as much was missed.

A non-smarty-pants answer is that they say everything in the Core 3 books control all of the gratuitous gristle released in other books.
Kendrick
10-16-05, 07:26 PM If two rules sources are in conflict, you're supposed to take the primary source as the prefered one. So when Races of the Wild shows something contradictory to the PHB, or DMG, it is assumed to be wrong unless it specifically states that the new rules text replaces the old rule. The other way for something like that to be valid is if the errata or FAQ replace the old rule, as was the case here.
kalstrand
10-17-05, 02:11 AM Now that the discussion about Mithril and armor type has started we need to look at the original post.

The question is about Celestial Armor.

If you read the description you find it is actually made of gold or silver not mithril. If you read further you find that it is considered light armor. It doesn't have the tag line about for movement and such that is found in the description of mithril.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Irishevil 10-15-05, 03:38 PM	the description says it is light armor, but is it considered light for the purposes of armor proficiency , it is Mithral armor which says 'Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations' My question is can a Ranger wear this without penalty?
primemover003 10-15-05, 07:13 PM	It's not mithril, it's either silver or gold. As for whether your Ranger can wear Chainmail (which is normally classed as Medium) the Official consensus seems to be if they say it's considered light, then it's light. Many disagree, especially when it comes to mithril fullplate and barbarians, but the powers that be keep saying it's light (or Medium in the fullplate case). If you're the DM make a judgement call, if you're a player ask your DM.
Verelor 10-15-05, 07:24 PM	Wait...if it's treated as light then it's not light? This defies common logic.
primemover003 10-15-05, 07:49 PM	Well think of it this way. Fullplate is fairly bulky armor compared to a suit of leather. Now if you change the material it's made out of it's a helluva lot lighter, but it's still fairly intricate armor. The whole point of Armor Proficiency is that certain classes are taught to don, move, and fight in different armor types. A Barbarian is not going to feel as comfortable in Fullplate because it limits his movement and slows him down. He's also not TRAINED to wear an articulated suit of plate. How to bend, turn, climb, jump, etc... Now if it's made of Mithril it's Armor check penalty goes down, it's weight goes down, it's ASF% goes down, and it doesn't effect speed as much... however it's still a suit of Full Plate the way it moves hasn't changed, just the ease of said movement.
Kendrick 10-15-05, 09:12 PM	Mithral Medium armor would count as light armor with regards to rules that say things like "you can use this ability only as long as you wear light armor or no armor". Mithral Heavy Armor would work the same way for abilities that are restricted to medium armor. But either way, you have to have proficiency or you take the ACP to attack rolls and so on.
DarknessEternal 10-16-05, 05:19 AM	But either way, you have to have proficiency or you take the ACP to attack rolls and so on. Almost, but not quite. Mithril Breastplates are light armor in EVERY way. Mithril Plate is medium armor in EVERY way. Every single book refers to them like that. Races of the Wild even has all the mithril possibilities on their chart of armor, and in descriptions, as being in the lighter category. Mithril Plate is never heavy armor.
marcus_antonius 10-16-05, 06:48 AM	hmmm..... mithral mountainplate (races of stone) IS indeed heavy armor ;) sorry...g just couldnt resist anyway: In my group we handle mithral armors as one category lighter for ALL purposes...including proficiency my 2cp
Kendrick 10-16-05, 01:06 PM	Almost, but not quite. Mithril Breastplates are light armor in EVERY way. Mithril Plate is medium armor in EVERY way. Every single book refers to them like that. Races of the Wild even has all the mithril possibilities on their chart of armor, and in descriptions, as being in the lighter category. Mithril Plate is never heavy armor. Look at the actual text of the mithral description in the DMG. It says you treat the armor as "one category lighter for movement and other restrictions". Is non-proficiency a movement or restriction? No. Lack of proficiency doesn't mean you can't wear it, it means you take a penalty when you do. This is pure house rule, RAW you have to have proficiency or you take ACP to attack rolls etc.
DarknessEternal 10-16-05, 04:31 PM	Look at the actual text of the mithral description in the DMG. Why would you ignore a newer rule made by the same people who wrote the DMG?
Kendrick 10-16-05, 05:49 PM	OK, I just checked the 3.5 FAQ, and I was completely wrong. Basically what it says is that the text doesn't allow it but it's since been officially ruled to function as lighter armor for proficiency. And I would ignore any rule from Races of the Wild, or whatever, because I wouldn't consider it core unless any rules changes in it are added to official errata or FAQ.
K_Man 10-16-05, 05:51 PM	Why would you ignore a newer rule made by the same people who wrote the DMG? You answered it with your question there. You have to take everything they write with a grain of salt. Everyone should be able to agree that, even with hundreds of playtesters listed in the book, plenty of stuff was missed, and with tons of supposed proofreading, just as much was missed. A non-smarty-pants answer is that they say everything in the Core 3 books control all of the gratuitous gristle released in other books.
Kendrick 10-16-05, 07:26 PM	If two rules sources are in conflict, you're supposed to take the primary source as the prefered one. So when Races of the Wild shows something contradictory to the PHB, or DMG, it is assumed to be wrong unless it specifically states that the new rules text replaces the old rule. The other way for something like that to be valid is if the errata or FAQ replace the old rule, as was the case here.
kalstrand 10-17-05, 02:11 AM	Now that the discussion about Mithril and armor type has started we need to look at the original post. The question is about Celestial Armor. If you read the description you find it is actually made of gold or silver not mithril. If you read further you find that it is considered light armor. It doesn't have the tag line about for movement and such that is found in the description of mithril.