Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tsh77769 08-12-05, 07:38 AM	I was looking at the Dastanna and Chahar-aina from Oriental Adventures. It says that they can only be used with padded, leather, or chain shirt. First, one big important question, in the description of Chahar-aina it says that you need to have medium armor proficieny in order to wear it without penalty. So, does that mean that when I wear it together with padded, leather, or chain shirt, I am now considered to be wearing medium armor? Or am I still wearing light armor and it is merely an equipement proficiency/familiarity issue? Please note the question embeddd in the below listings. So ok lets start with Chain Shirt... 100gp, armor bonus +4, max dex bonus +4, ACP -2, ASF 20%, 25lb. Actually, skip that, lets go for the gold (err...Mithral rather) Mithral Shirt (DMG 220) 1,100gp, armror bonus +4, max dex bonus +6, ACP 0, ASF 10%, 10lb. (notice it is 2lbs lighter this way) Now add masterwork Dastanna... 175gp (25 base +150 mstrwrk), armor bonus +1, max dex -- (does this mean that the max dex is unaffected or that it is 0?), ACP 0 (-1 base +1 mstrwrk), ASF 5% (does this ADD to the ASF for 15% or is only the higher of the 2 used?), 5lb (I'm sure you add this weight to that of the chain shirt, right?). Now add masterwork Chahar-aina... 225gp (75 base +150 mstrwrk), armor bonus +1, max dex --, ACP 0 (-1 base +1 mstrwrk), ASF 5%, 10lb SO, IF I understand everything correctly I get... 1,500gp, armor bonus +6, max dex bonus +6, ACP 0, ASF 20%, 25lb. Now is it still light armor (I argue yes if for no other reason than the use of mithral, becasue even if the chahar-aina made it medium, the mithral made it light again, see waht I mean?) or is it medium now (I think not). IF I did all of that correctly and legitimately according to the rules then that... FREAKING ROCKS!!!
Tsh77769 08-12-05, 07:54 AM	How much would it cost to make the Dastanna and Chahar-aina mithral instead of just masterwork (I'm just thinking about the weight)? Would this further increase my max dex (I think not but am not sure)? They are not light armor by themselves so I don't think you ought to have to pay 1,000gp for them each. The DMG mithral item price mod. table list the price for armor by category, then it list 500gp per lb, but that comes out to 2,500 for the dastanna and 5,000 for the chahar-aina, and that is clearly ridiculous. Even if you wre to base the weigh on the mithral modified weight it is still 1,250, and 2,500 and that is alo still heinously ridiculous. How about saying that it is +1,000gp (for a total of 2,500 for the whole ball of wax) to make both the dastanna and the chahar-aina from mithral? Wouldn't this also bring the end products ASF down to 10% (- the 5% from the dastanna and - the 5% from the chahar-aina) and total weight down to 17.5lb? tsh77769
Tsh77769 08-12-05, 08:09 AM	I guess instead of mithral for the Dastanna and Chahar-aina, darkwood is equally effective in this specifica case and MUCH cheaper. tsh77769
Tsh77769 08-13-05, 12:20 AM	So, did I do it correctly or not? Tsh77769
jaelis 08-13-05, 01:18 AM	OK, I don't have the books but I'll try to help. First are the dastanna and chahar-aina normally made of wood or metal? If metal, then you can't use darkwood, and if wood, then you can't use mithral. But you don't want darkwood anyway, that doesn't change the classification of armor anyway. In your post, you explained that you need medium armor proficiency to use these things, but are they actually listed as medium armor? In other words, are they on a table of armors in the "medium" section? If so, and if they are made of metal, then you can make them out of mithral and they will count as light armor for movement and other purposes. The cost for this would be like for medium armor, +4000 gp. If they are not listed as medium armor, do they say that, while wearing them, you are treated as wearing medium armor? If so, then I don't think mithral will help. The way these things encumber you would be a special property of the items, and mithral doesn't have any rules about special item properties, only armor. If they are not listed as medium armor, and they don't say you are treated as wearing medium armor as a special property, then you don't need to make them out of mithral, you are treated as wearing light armor anyway. If you do make them mithral, I would probably price it as a shield in this case (+1000 gp). The only advantage to doing this would be to reduce the ASF penalties of the dastanna and chahar-aina to zero. Well, they would also weigh half as much. I'm sure someone with the books would be more useful, but I hope that helps.
Lathi 08-13-05, 04:19 AM	I would imagine that, as the chahar-aina requires the medium armor proficiency to use w/o penalty, then when you wear them you're considered to be wearing medium armor. Because the chahar-aina is, essentially, the "plate" part of a breastplate that you can wear over lighter armors., it doesn't really matter whether you wear it over a mithral shirt or a padded doublet: light armor + chahar-aina = medium armor. Of course, it's still a decent deal because, if you slap it over a basic chain shirt, you've made a slightly cheaper (175gp vs 200gp) breastplate, with 5 extra pounds of weight and 1 less ACP (-3 vs -4). Now, if you make the whole shebang out of mithral and throw in the dastana, you'd end up with a very good suit of light armor, pre-enchantment. The dastana are classified as shields for pricing (though require light armor proficiency to use). And I'm guessing that, since it's just the light metal plates and some cord holding them together, the chahar-aina on its own is categorized as light armor for pricing purposes - putting it at +1000 for mithral crafting. Also, the price of mithral includes masterworking, so you don't have to add that to the base price. Mithral chain shirt: 1100gp (+4 AC, 6 max dex, 0 ACP, 10% ASF, 10 lb) Mith. Dastana: 1025gp (+1 AC, no dex penalty, 0 ACP, 0 ASF, 2.5 lbs) Mith. Chahar-Aina 1075gp (+1 AC, no dex penalty, 0 ACP, 0 ASF, 5 lbs) ----------------------------- 3200gp (+6 AC, 6 max dex, 0 ACP, 10% ASF, 17.5 lbs) Versus - Mith. breastplate: 4200gp (+5 AC, 5 max dex. -1 ACP, 15%ASF, 15 lbs.) Two and a half pounds for superior protection and mobility - plus, technically, you've got 3 individual pieces of armor that can be enchanted. And you haven't even invested in a shield, yet. If your DM lets you have it, it would rock indeed.
Tsh77769 08-14-05, 05:22 AM	Darkwood says that it can be used in place of metal. (EDIT, nope, sorry, I was thinking of ironwood). I am just using it only to reduce the weight. As darkwood is MUCH cheaper than Mithral, I think this is the way to go. I don't care about the ASF. I do think that even if the addition of the chahar-aina would normally make it medium, due to the mithral construction of the chain shirt and mithral or darkwood construction of the dastanna and chahar-aina, it would be back to being considered light again. Yeah, it does rock. As far as I can tell it is one of the very best non-magic armor builds that is even possible in the game. As per my other post, Sharkskin armor from Races of Faerun is pretty sweet too, almost as good and even cheaper yet, plus it can be used by Druids. Tsh77769
xver 08-14-05, 08:45 AM	That's some nice armor you're got there. Now I just need a way to get rid of the last 10% ASF. He he he. One twinked Red Mage coming up ... (I mean the FF class, not some DnD class or 8-bit Theater's sillyness. Simulated using a Wizard or Sorcerer. Likely Sorcerer, it's more FF style magic.) I don't have OA (never bothered in 3.0, they haven't made 3.5). I did, however, play a short game, which was great fun. Anyway, I was wondering what the descriptions and stats of this stuff is. Has an offical 3.5 update of OA come out yet? (I mean an errata. I know the book hasn't been updated.) Or did these armor items make it into any 3.5 book? (I've seen OA stuff all over CW and CA.)
Tsh77769 08-14-05, 05:32 PM	Dastanna are alos in either sword and fist, arms and equipement, or complete warrior, maybe the chahar-aina too, but I don;t recall right now. Tsh77769
Lathi 08-14-05, 08:18 PM	Yeah, the dastana are in Arms and Equipment. No chahar-aina, though, so no idea on where else to find them. And though I can appreciate the cost-cutting value, I don't believe darkwood will work for these applications - I'm fairly certain the +1 to AC of the two pieces is dependant on them being made of hardness 10-15 metal rather than hardness 5 wood. That's why, though it's technically possible with enough effort, you cannot make plate armors out of wood, unless its stats are close enough to iron/steel (i.e. bronzewood). Armor made out of normal wood (including darkwood) has a much reduced AC to reflect this.
Wolf72 08-14-05, 08:54 PM	with all MW equipment you don't even need the light armor feat ... that total ACP of 0 is pretty nifty considering what you're wearing. Dastana and Chahar-aina were originally found in Oriental Adventures. using Darkwood for armor was from Dragon Magazine (whichever one Elves were featured in) keep track of how much weight you're carrying ... that can reduce your speed too.
Tsh77769 08-14-05, 09:43 PM	In regards to the darkwood, I was thinking of darkwood PKUS ironwood. Yeah, darkwood by itself can only be used for items that would normally be wood. Ironwood can make any wood be able to substitue for metal though. I though darkwood for the half weight and cheaper price and ironwood so that you can use it in place of metal and viola. You know waht else is really intriguin would be to see how a chain shirt made out of wildwood (? the one that self repairs, eberrob on races of the wild?) and wildwood dastanna and chahar-aina to mathc would come out. Great for druids, sefl-repairing and probably decent stats. We should check into this. tsh77769
Tsh77769 08-14-05, 09:56 PM	Two quick questions...Can Ironwood be made permanent, I was sure that it could but I don;t know much about spells. Also, could iron wood be applied to wildwood. Now that would ROCK! Tsh77769