Chain Tripping Fighter, Make 'em cry. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chain Tripping Fighter, Make 'em cry. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Boab_the_Barrier
03-08-06, 08:26 PM Hey, i'm recently starting to DM a campaign of my own and want to base it on a more RPish sense than the campaign my current DM is running. I've got three people who really want to RP a lot and the DM was invited for the forth. Since i'm realitively new the the DMing scene we agreed on doing only core rules with a little expansion for the races. So so far my players are as follows: Female Human Paladin, Detachable Warforged Barbarian, and a Male Fire Elf Wizard. These are all great and have a lot of roleplaying story involved. Yet my current DM doesn't seem to adhere to my rule of Roleplay over Damage-play (As we call it). So he's decided to be a Male Hazaru Fighter who is specializing in Tripping with a spiked chain. I've nothing against the tactic or the racial choice, it's just that i've expressed my concern about him trying to play along my knowledge weaknesses and he said he really doesn't care. So, instead of kicking him out, and thus trying to find another player (not likey in this god forsaken town), I'd just like some options on how to really make him cry. Oh, we're starting at level 1, so just straite killing him is an option, but i'd like to make it a little bit more fun. Death is such a cheap way out sometimes. I've entertained the idea of having a couple Halberd weilding Orcs team up on him, or a Guisarme fighting Ogre to try and trip him back along with a disarm and retreate OR a disarm and sunder. Although I think if I was to sunder his weapon he'd take a grudge to it and begin a sundering frenzy against my monster. Which in turn would 'cause many Adamantine weilding monsters. The whole problem of the issue, besides a limited knowledge, is I don't want it to become a competition between the two of us so much that the other three players suffer and don't get enough roleplaying out of the deal as they would like. Anyways, give me your feedback on the issue and maybe i'll be able to find a 'happy was of pursuasion' to help me. The whole disarm thing would probably happen very far away from town aswell, so he'll just be forced to use a normal weapon for the rest of the adventure.
draconic_swine
03-08-06, 09:58 PM You've got some pretty good ideas. Tossing big, strong creatures at him that reduce his trip and disarming abilities and nullify his reach is a good, solid idea. Another idea is to include monsters that use natural weapons, or monsters with many legs that effectively render them immune to tripping (Large monstrous centipede, anyone? It's only CR1).

One thing you'll definitely want to avoid is turning this into a war where the two of you constantly try to one-up one another, so I suggest avoiding using sunder at all costs. Also, don't always toss out baddies that completely nullify his spiked chain, because that'll just make him resentful. It may be tough, but try using enemies that make it more difficult for him to succeed at tripping and disarming, but not impossible.
Waterhammer
03-08-06, 10:24 PM A spiked chain cannot be used to trip, or disarm as a reach attack. Yes, it's a house rule but it's one that makes sense.
Dragonsnack
03-08-06, 10:36 PM Well, if you want lots of role-playing just give lots of role-playing chances. So he can kick butt in a fight, if there's no fighting he'll have to either role-play or just sit there.

I totally agree with Draconic swine, toss in a good variety, and instead of a grudge match just put in some creatures that are harder to trip. Not to mention (and I speak from experience, now playing a fighter/rogue who uses spiked chain), what seems a great tactic at starting levels gets pretty old later on, a huge amount of high CR creatures are larger than PC races, and plenty fly, are incorporeal, have many feet, or no feet at all.

If you really think he's abusing your trust, a subtle (and reasonable) way to pay him back is to have most of the treasure you award the party be useful magic items but NOT a spiked chain (most fighters use swords and axes, I think it's a pretty rare wizard who'd enchant a chain). His fighting style will be slightly ahead of the party average, but his weapon will be slightly behind.
jaelis
03-08-06, 10:38 PM (Edit: like Dragonsnack said,) If you want a more RP campaign, put RP stuff in. He can't use his chain to convince the duke not to betray the king, can he?

Run things how you want, but I'd say if he made a character optimized for combat, go ahead and let him shine in combat. Just make sure a healthy chunk of XP comes from non-combat activities, and he'll come around pretty quick. Or he'll get bored and leave, but that is a different problem.
Tony Vargas
03-08-06, 10:43 PM It's your game, don't include spiked chains and whacky races if you don't want to.

Assuming you want to:

First off: no 'magic shops' and no enchanted spiked chains as treasure.

DR/slashing or bludgeonging.

Large and/or 4-legged monsters. Or just non-trippable creatures like oozes and such.

Missle users.

Tumble. Spring Attack.

Lower the point-buy. Spiked Chain Munchkin is stat-intensive, it'll hurt him more than everyone else ... well, except the Paladin. OK, not such a great idea.

Remember that you can't Trip on the AoO for standing up from prone ('cause you're still prone until you're done standing up).

Remember those counter-trips when he fails, Improved Trip doesn't prevent them, and he'll have to fall or drop the 'chain.

Mounted Combatants: it's tempting to try to pull them out of the saddle, but the mechanic is whacked - they get a ride check. Maxxed ride should blow a basic STR+Size+Improved Trip out of the water. Mounts are generally pretty hard to trip, too.

High DEX enemies - DEX can also be used to resist trip.

All-touch-AC enemies. There aren't a lot of 'em, but Monks, for instance, can get pretty close. Frustrating for the IT type, since the near-gauranteed touch attack to start the Trip is part of the apeal.

...

Finally, consider whether you really want to start a 'war' with a player - especially one who aparently also DMs for you. While 'punishing' a munchkiny build has a certain visceral apeal, it often leads to hard feelings - harder than simply banning the munchkinbait up front probably would.
yuenglingdragon
03-09-06, 01:10 AM Everybody has had some good ideas. I advise against sunder as it tends to just **** off PC's and you'll have to do it to everyone if you're going to do it to the munchkin. It's a good idea to mix in some large and multi-legged opponents but since it is a RP heavy campaign your cheesy chain fighter will have to role-play to get the big experience not just roll play.
Boab_the_Barrier
03-09-06, 04:26 PM *bump*
SwiftFox
03-10-06, 10:56 AM After a session or two you should have a better idea of whether this character build is actually overpowered in practise... Im willing to bet the warforged barbarian will be doing more damage.
If the guy isnt hogging the limelight, making combats too easy, or anything else thats disruptive then just let him have his fun.
IMO the important thing is that he roleplays... he might powergame too, but as long as hes making an effort to roleplay you shouldnt go out of your way to nerf him.
SlagMortar
03-10-06, 11:47 AM Looks like you've already got a pretty good list for challenging him in combat. Remember that not only does the counter trip still happen if he fails, but Improved Trip does not even provide any bonus to avoid the counter trip.

If he makes an optimize tripper, chances are he will dump charisma. Make sure there are plenty of Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise rolls.
Someone
03-10-06, 11:56 AM There are still combat encounters that a trip monkey would have trouble with: ranged attacks. A longbow can pelt them from a really long way away (or across from a pit too wide to jump over), and magic spells can have even longer ranges.

And don't forget traps. You can't trip a poison coated doorknob. :D
CaiasWard
03-10-06, 11:59 AM Consider this:

Rather than punish him for his damage-play, reward it. Focus on the art of combat rather than the numbers. Give him background reasons why he is so good at what he does (perhaps he was trained by a master of an obscure order of chain fighters).

Give him an NPC master, one that he can cultivate a relationship with and bond with over play. Even consider running flashback scenes of training and combat (give the other characters NPCs to play). He gets his combat fix, but sees the reasons behind the combat.

Build the relationship... then kill the master off in a dishonorable way. Give him an enemy, but make it one he can't directly attack (powerful, or diplomatically connected, etc). As well, give the PC allies from the order that will help him focus on other aspects than just damage ("The Three Circle Training Floor is not only of the physical world, but a spiritual aspect...") Give him RP time based on his training that lets him use it in non-combat situations. Grab stuff from old Kung-Fu movies if you need to, but give him hooks that let him avoid just calling out numbers.

As well, talk with the player and drill down into character history. Make him go three layers deep with details (who was his master's master, etc), have him develop names for chain moves for when he full power attacks (Dragon Tail Hammer) vs fighting defensively (Stinging Smoke). And encourage all your players to describe their combat moves; it will get them into the roleplaying outside of combat as well.

Punishing your player with gimmicks and tricks will just annoy your player. Work with your players and avoid the us vs. them circumstance that often happens in these situations. While you can occasionally take such actions as DR/Bludgeoning, ranged opponents, etc. your players want to feel effective once in a while.
Silverthumb128
03-10-06, 03:55 PM Want to keep him from tripping? Flying monsters, swarms, (as said several times above, but bears repeating) big monsters, terrain hazards, ranged attackers, those are a good way to start. :D
OravennasBrother
03-10-06, 05:05 PM Horse Archers.
Mounted warriors of any sort (horses are extremely stable)
Pikes in Dense formation.
A noble laughs at his silly chain weapon and when he kills the noble he gets executed for the crime. If he doesn't do anything everyone laughs at him for his stupid weapon. (this last is an extreme measure)
MysteryGilgamesh
03-10-06, 06:51 PM A spiked chain cannot be used to trip, or disarm as a reach attack. Yes, it's a house rule but it's one that makes sense.

Yes, complete sense. Because, y'know, a 10ft long section of chain can't wrap around your arm, leg, weapon, or have any real range, or anything, right? Ever see a kusari-gama (I believe that's it's name)? There's a reason why the chain is likely weighted at both ends, y'know...

There really should be some kind of qualification for being a GM, because seeing things like this really makes me lose my faith in gamers as a whole.
Arandar
03-10-06, 07:00 PM As has been stated in regards to sunder, this should be said to all things. Don't keep sending them against things that does damage the same kind of way or only against monsters that cannot be tripped.

Sunder can be used, if used sparingly. Otherwise the same would go with monsters like the Rust Monster (very fun). I still remember my girlfriend's face when her character jumped into a pit just to be attacked by a rust monster. Her Scale Mail went up in rust (Of course she was given something to compensate, but not until an adventure or 2 after).

Anything can be used really. Sunder works, trip works, disarm works, flying monsters work, ranged attacks works, but like everything else it all should be done sparingly. Same tactics kinda **** off players nomatter who they are.

Also, as you've already said you want to do a roleplaying campaign, do it. I'm currently running a very roleplaying-heavy campaign. I started out telling my players combat would be there but it would take a back-seat to roleplaying, and they would be punishing themselves if they made a combat-heavy character (It does seem a new player is going to make a combat-heavy character, but will add a couple of Rogue levels for skills).
I award experience for situations dealt with successfully without the use of weapons (and I award a more for these than the ones dealt with weapons). I award experience for situations where quests are done without the use of weapons at all.

One word of advice though. It is in many cases worse for the DM to run RP-heavy campaigns than combat-heavy campaigns. Hack'n'Slash campaigns are so straightforward. You need so much more creativity and concentration doing RP-heavy campaigns.
Solarcrest
03-11-06, 02:16 AM Another simple way to get him to try and roleplay and interact with the environment

Add obstacles that the chain could get wrapped around, trees, buildings to close.

Or push all the PC's in close to him so that way if he tries to trip he has the disadvantage of tripping his own party memebers.
Boab_the_Barrier
03-11-06, 12:49 PM Hey, thanks guys, those are all really good ideas. I'll try them all out and let you know how it works. I do not plan on making EVERY battle suck for him, just want him to understand it's not cool to seek out the places I don't understand stuff exactly and abuse them.

Oh and...

There really should be some kind of qualification for being a GM, because seeing things like this really makes me lose my faith in gamers as a whole.

My DM asked me to start a campaign because he wants to be a player again. I had mentioned that one day I would like to DM my own campaign and he took that as meaning I wanted to start one next month. And, did you not also start out with a limited knowledge? I've only been playing for around 3 months and I already have a majority of the PHB and DMG memorized. Don't think that I asked help because i'm incapable, I just wanted to see what other people, who infact have had more D&D experience thought about the issue. This is a forum, is it not?

Thank you all for your input, it's greatly appreciated.
Dragonteuthis
03-11-06, 01:35 PM First off, you should learn about paragraphs. Splitting up a long initial post will help a lot. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to lend some advice.

...i've expressed my concern about him trying to play along my knowledge weaknesses and he said he really doesn't care.

I think this right here is where I'd tell him to leave. You asked him not to do something, and he responded, "I don't care."? That does not sound like a very nice person. I've always viewed playing D&D as a cooperative thing.

Edit: I do believe that MysteryGilgamesh's comment was not directed at you, Boab.
Khael
03-11-06, 01:41 PM There really should be some kind of qualification for being a GM, because seeing things like this really makes me lose my faith in gamers as a whole.

My DM asked me to start a campaign because he wants to be a player again. I had mentioned that one day I would like to DM my own campaign and he took that as meaning I wanted to start one next month. And, did you not also start out with a limited knowledge? I've only been playing for around 3 months and I already have a majority of the PHB and DMG memorized. Don't think that I asked help because i'm incapable, I just wanted to see what other people, who infact have had more D&D experience thought about the issue. This is a forum, is it not?

Thank you all for your input, it's greatly appreciated.

Actually i think he was talking to Waterhammer about the house rule idea...and more specifically about the way the house rule was chosen because 'it makes sense', when actually the original rules made more sense in regards to trip and disarm attacks combine with reach.
Merestil Haye
03-11-06, 01:50 PM Hey, thanks guys, those are all really good ideas. I'll try them all out and let you know how it works. I do not plan on making EVERY battle suck for him, just want him to understand it's not cool to seek out the places I don't understand stuff exactly and abuse them.Good luck.

One thing about flying creatures; they are not immune to trip attacks. Creatures that fly with limbs (pretty much everything with wings) can be tripped in midair. This causes the creature to stall. I would treat a stalled flying creature as having stopped where it was "tripped". The creature must then spend its next action (immediately if it has any left, otherwise the first action in its next turn) recovering from the stall. This does not apply if the creature has Perfect or Good manoevreability (as it would not have to maintain forward motion to stay aloft). Creatures with Average or worse manoevreability cannot stay still and remain aloft unless they have the Hover feat, but this requires a move action to use. (I'd guess your old DM might well know this.)

A useful quote from the FAQ on the subject of tripping.Being tripped makes you prone. Who can be tripped? Beholders? Gelatinous cubes? What effect does tripping have on these creatures? Can a prone character be tripped again? What about flying and swimming creatures? Many creatures have neither legs nor any relationship to the ground or gravity. How does tripping affect them?
Anything using limbs for locomotion can be tripped. Things that don�t need limbs for locomotion can�t be tripped. You can�t trip a snake, a beholder, or a gelatinous cube. You won�t find this in the rules, but then it really doesn�t need to be in there�the rules can leave some things to the DM�s common sense.
A creature flying with wings can be �tripped,� in which case the creature stalls (see Tactical Aerial Movement on page 20 of the DUNGEON MASTER�s Guide). You can�t make an incorporeal creature fall down. You also can�t trip a prone creature.
Creatures can�t be tripped when they�re swimming (the water holds them up). Likewise, a burrowing creature is driving its body through a fairly solid medium that serves to hold it up.Hope that helps.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Boab_the_Barrier 03-08-06, 08:26 PM	Hey, i'm recently starting to DM a campaign of my own and want to base it on a more RPish sense than the campaign my current DM is running. I've got three people who really want to RP a lot and the DM was invited for the forth. Since i'm realitively new the the DMing scene we agreed on doing only core rules with a little expansion for the races. So so far my players are as follows: Female Human Paladin, Detachable Warforged Barbarian, and a Male Fire Elf Wizard. These are all great and have a lot of roleplaying story involved. Yet my current DM doesn't seem to adhere to my rule of Roleplay over Damage-play (As we call it). So he's decided to be a Male Hazaru Fighter who is specializing in Tripping with a spiked chain. I've nothing against the tactic or the racial choice, it's just that i've expressed my concern about him trying to play along my knowledge weaknesses and he said he really doesn't care. So, instead of kicking him out, and thus trying to find another player (not likey in this god forsaken town), I'd just like some options on how to really make him cry. Oh, we're starting at level 1, so just straite killing him is an option, but i'd like to make it a little bit more fun. Death is such a cheap way out sometimes. I've entertained the idea of having a couple Halberd weilding Orcs team up on him, or a Guisarme fighting Ogre to try and trip him back along with a disarm and retreate OR a disarm and sunder. Although I think if I was to sunder his weapon he'd take a grudge to it and begin a sundering frenzy against my monster. Which in turn would 'cause many Adamantine weilding monsters. The whole problem of the issue, besides a limited knowledge, is I don't want it to become a competition between the two of us so much that the other three players suffer and don't get enough roleplaying out of the deal as they would like. Anyways, give me your feedback on the issue and maybe i'll be able to find a 'happy was of pursuasion' to help me. The whole disarm thing would probably happen very far away from town aswell, so he'll just be forced to use a normal weapon for the rest of the adventure.
draconic_swine 03-08-06, 09:58 PM	You've got some pretty good ideas. Tossing big, strong creatures at him that reduce his trip and disarming abilities and nullify his reach is a good, solid idea. Another idea is to include monsters that use natural weapons, or monsters with many legs that effectively render them immune to tripping (Large monstrous centipede, anyone? It's only CR1). One thing you'll definitely want to avoid is turning this into a war where the two of you constantly try to one-up one another, so I suggest avoiding using sunder at all costs. Also, don't always toss out baddies that completely nullify his spiked chain, because that'll just make him resentful. It may be tough, but try using enemies that make it more difficult for him to succeed at tripping and disarming, but not impossible.
Waterhammer 03-08-06, 10:24 PM	A spiked chain cannot be used to trip, or disarm as a reach attack. Yes, it's a house rule but it's one that makes sense.
Dragonsnack 03-08-06, 10:36 PM	Well, if you want lots of role-playing just give lots of role-playing chances. So he can kick butt in a fight, if there's no fighting he'll have to either role-play or just sit there. I totally agree with Draconic swine, toss in a good variety, and instead of a grudge match just put in some creatures that are harder to trip. Not to mention (and I speak from experience, now playing a fighter/rogue who uses spiked chain), what seems a great tactic at starting levels gets pretty old later on, a huge amount of high CR creatures are larger than PC races, and plenty fly, are incorporeal, have many feet, or no feet at all. If you really think he's abusing your trust, a subtle (and reasonable) way to pay him back is to have most of the treasure you award the party be useful magic items but NOT a spiked chain (most fighters use swords and axes, I think it's a pretty rare wizard who'd enchant a chain). His fighting style will be slightly ahead of the party average, but his weapon will be slightly behind.
jaelis 03-08-06, 10:38 PM	(Edit: like Dragonsnack said,) If you want a more RP campaign, put RP stuff in. He can't use his chain to convince the duke not to betray the king, can he? Run things how you want, but I'd say if he made a character optimized for combat, go ahead and let him shine in combat. Just make sure a healthy chunk of XP comes from non-combat activities, and he'll come around pretty quick. Or he'll get bored and leave, but that is a different problem.
Tony Vargas 03-08-06, 10:43 PM	It's your game, don't include spiked chains and whacky races if you don't want to. Assuming you want to: First off: no 'magic shops' and no enchanted spiked chains as treasure. DR/slashing or bludgeonging. Large and/or 4-legged monsters. Or just non-trippable creatures like oozes and such. Missle users. Tumble. Spring Attack. Lower the point-buy. Spiked Chain Munchkin is stat-intensive, it'll hurt him more than everyone else ... well, except the Paladin. OK, not such a great idea. Remember that you can't Trip on the AoO for standing up from prone ('cause you're still prone until you're done standing up). Remember those counter-trips when he fails, Improved Trip doesn't prevent them, and he'll have to fall or drop the 'chain. Mounted Combatants: it's tempting to try to pull them out of the saddle, but the mechanic is whacked - they get a ride check. Maxxed ride should blow a basic STR+Size+Improved Trip out of the water. Mounts are generally pretty hard to trip, too. High DEX enemies - DEX can also be used to resist trip. All-touch-AC enemies. There aren't a lot of 'em, but Monks, for instance, can get pretty close. Frustrating for the IT type, since the near-gauranteed touch attack to start the Trip is part of the apeal. ... Finally, consider whether you really want to start a 'war' with a player - especially one who aparently also DMs for you. While 'punishing' a munchkiny build has a certain visceral apeal, it often leads to hard feelings - harder than simply banning the munchkinbait up front probably would.
yuenglingdragon 03-09-06, 01:10 AM	Everybody has had some good ideas. I advise against sunder as it tends to just **** off PC's and you'll have to do it to everyone if you're going to do it to the munchkin. It's a good idea to mix in some large and multi-legged opponents but since it is a RP heavy campaign your cheesy chain fighter will have to role-play to get the big experience not just roll play.
Boab_the_Barrier 03-09-06, 04:26 PM	bump
SwiftFox 03-10-06, 10:56 AM	After a session or two you should have a better idea of whether this character build is actually overpowered in practise... Im willing to bet the warforged barbarian will be doing more damage. If the guy isnt hogging the limelight, making combats too easy, or anything else thats disruptive then just let him have his fun. IMO the important thing is that he roleplays... he might powergame too, but as long as hes making an effort to roleplay you shouldnt go out of your way to nerf him.
SlagMortar 03-10-06, 11:47 AM	Looks like you've already got a pretty good list for challenging him in combat. Remember that not only does the counter trip still happen if he fails, but Improved Trip does not even provide any bonus to avoid the counter trip. If he makes an optimize tripper, chances are he will dump charisma. Make sure there are plenty of Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise rolls.
Someone 03-10-06, 11:56 AM	There are still combat encounters that a trip monkey would have trouble with: ranged attacks. A longbow can pelt them from a really long way away (or across from a pit too wide to jump over), and magic spells can have even longer ranges. And don't forget traps. You can't trip a poison coated doorknob. :D
CaiasWard 03-10-06, 11:59 AM	Consider this: Rather than punish him for his damage-play, reward it. Focus on the art of combat rather than the numbers. Give him background reasons why he is so good at what he does (perhaps he was trained by a master of an obscure order of chain fighters). Give him an NPC master, one that he can cultivate a relationship with and bond with over play. Even consider running flashback scenes of training and combat (give the other characters NPCs to play). He gets his combat fix, but sees the reasons behind the combat. Build the relationship... then kill the master off in a dishonorable way. Give him an enemy, but make it one he can't directly attack (powerful, or diplomatically connected, etc). As well, give the PC allies from the order that will help him focus on other aspects than just damage ("The Three Circle Training Floor is not only of the physical world, but a spiritual aspect...") Give him RP time based on his training that lets him use it in non-combat situations. Grab stuff from old Kung-Fu movies if you need to, but give him hooks that let him avoid just calling out numbers. As well, talk with the player and drill down into character history. Make him go three layers deep with details (who was his master's master, etc), have him develop names for chain moves for when he full power attacks (Dragon Tail Hammer) vs fighting defensively (Stinging Smoke). And encourage all your players to describe their combat moves; it will get them into the roleplaying outside of combat as well. Punishing your player with gimmicks and tricks will just annoy your player. Work with your players and avoid the us vs. them circumstance that often happens in these situations. While you can occasionally take such actions as DR/Bludgeoning, ranged opponents, etc. your players want to feel effective once in a while.
Silverthumb128 03-10-06, 03:55 PM	Want to keep him from tripping? Flying monsters, swarms, (as said several times above, but bears repeating) big monsters, terrain hazards, ranged attackers, those are a good way to start. :D
OravennasBrother 03-10-06, 05:05 PM	Horse Archers. Mounted warriors of any sort (horses are extremely stable) Pikes in Dense formation. A noble laughs at his silly chain weapon and when he kills the noble he gets executed for the crime. If he doesn't do anything everyone laughs at him for his stupid weapon. (this last is an extreme measure)
MysteryGilgamesh 03-10-06, 06:51 PM	A spiked chain cannot be used to trip, or disarm as a reach attack. Yes, it's a house rule but it's one that makes sense. Yes, complete sense. Because, y'know, a 10ft long section of chain can't wrap around your arm, leg, weapon, or have any real range, or anything, right? Ever see a kusari-gama (I believe that's it's name)? There's a reason why the chain is likely weighted at both ends, y'know... There really should be some kind of qualification for being a GM, because seeing things like this really makes me lose my faith in gamers as a whole.
Arandar 03-10-06, 07:00 PM	As has been stated in regards to sunder, this should be said to all things. Don't keep sending them against things that does damage the same kind of way or only against monsters that cannot be tripped. Sunder can be used, if used sparingly. Otherwise the same would go with monsters like the Rust Monster (very fun). I still remember my girlfriend's face when her character jumped into a pit just to be attacked by a rust monster. Her Scale Mail went up in rust (Of course she was given something to compensate, but not until an adventure or 2 after). Anything can be used really. Sunder works, trip works, disarm works, flying monsters work, ranged attacks works, but like everything else it all should be done sparingly. Same tactics kinda **** off players nomatter who they are. Also, as you've already said you want to do a roleplaying campaign, do it. I'm currently running a very roleplaying-heavy campaign. I started out telling my players combat would be there but it would take a back-seat to roleplaying, and they would be punishing themselves if they made a combat-heavy character (It does seem a new player is going to make a combat-heavy character, but will add a couple of Rogue levels for skills). I award experience for situations dealt with successfully without the use of weapons (and I award a more for these than the ones dealt with weapons). I award experience for situations where quests are done without the use of weapons at all. One word of advice though. It is in many cases worse for the DM to run RP-heavy campaigns than combat-heavy campaigns. Hack'n'Slash campaigns are so straightforward. You need so much more creativity and concentration doing RP-heavy campaigns.
Solarcrest 03-11-06, 02:16 AM	Another simple way to get him to try and roleplay and interact with the environment Add obstacles that the chain could get wrapped around, trees, buildings to close. Or push all the PC's in close to him so that way if he tries to trip he has the disadvantage of tripping his own party memebers.
Boab_the_Barrier 03-11-06, 12:49 PM	Hey, thanks guys, those are all really good ideas. I'll try them all out and let you know how it works. I do not plan on making EVERY battle suck for him, just want him to understand it's not cool to seek out the places I don't understand stuff exactly and abuse them. Oh and... There really should be some kind of qualification for being a GM, because seeing things like this really makes me lose my faith in gamers as a whole. My DM asked me to start a campaign because he wants to be a player again. I had mentioned that one day I would like to DM my own campaign and he took that as meaning I wanted to start one next month. And, did you not also start out with a limited knowledge? I've only been playing for around 3 months and I already have a majority of the PHB and DMG memorized. Don't think that I asked help because i'm incapable, I just wanted to see what other people, who infact have had more D&D experience thought about the issue. This is a forum, is it not? Thank you all for your input, it's greatly appreciated.
Dragonteuthis 03-11-06, 01:35 PM	First off, you should learn about paragraphs. Splitting up a long initial post will help a lot. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to lend some advice. ...i've expressed my concern about him trying to play along my knowledge weaknesses and he said he really doesn't care. I think this right here is where I'd tell him to leave. You asked him not to do something, and he responded, "I don't care."? That does not sound like a very nice person. I've always viewed playing D&D as a cooperative thing. Edit: I do believe that MysteryGilgamesh's comment was not directed at you, Boab.
Khael 03-11-06, 01:41 PM	There really should be some kind of qualification for being a GM, because seeing things like this really makes me lose my faith in gamers as a whole. My DM asked me to start a campaign because he wants to be a player again. I had mentioned that one day I would like to DM my own campaign and he took that as meaning I wanted to start one next month. And, did you not also start out with a limited knowledge? I've only been playing for around 3 months and I already have a majority of the PHB and DMG memorized. Don't think that I asked help because i'm incapable, I just wanted to see what other people, who infact have had more D&D experience thought about the issue. This is a forum, is it not? Thank you all for your input, it's greatly appreciated. Actually i think he was talking to Waterhammer about the house rule idea...and more specifically about the way the house rule was chosen because 'it makes sense', when actually the original rules made more sense in regards to trip and disarm attacks combine with reach.
Merestil Haye 03-11-06, 01:50 PM	Hey, thanks guys, those are all really good ideas. I'll try them all out and let you know how it works. I do not plan on making EVERY battle suck for him, just want him to understand it's not cool to seek out the places I don't understand stuff exactly and abuse them.Good luck. One thing about flying creatures; they are not immune to trip attacks. Creatures that fly with limbs (pretty much everything with wings) can be tripped in midair. This causes the creature to stall. I would treat a stalled flying creature as having stopped where it was "tripped". The creature must then spend its next action (immediately if it has any left, otherwise the first action in its next turn) recovering from the stall. This does not apply if the creature has Perfect or Good manoevreability (as it would not have to maintain forward motion to stay aloft). Creatures with Average or worse manoevreability cannot stay still and remain aloft unless they have the Hover feat, but this requires a move action to use. (I'd guess your old DM might well know this.) A useful quote from the FAQ on the subject of tripping.Being tripped makes you prone. Who can be tripped? Beholders? Gelatinous cubes? What effect does tripping have on these creatures? Can a prone character be tripped again? What about flying and swimming creatures? Many creatures have neither legs nor any relationship to the ground or gravity. How does tripping affect them? Anything using limbs for locomotion can be tripped. Things that don�t need limbs for locomotion can�t be tripped. You can�t trip a snake, a beholder, or a gelatinous cube. You won�t find this in the rules, but then it really doesn�t need to be in there�the rules can leave some things to the DM�s common sense. A creature flying with wings can be �tripped,� in which case the creature stalls (see Tactical Aerial Movement on page 20 of the DUNGEON MASTER�s Guide). You can�t make an incorporeal creature fall down. You also can�t trip a prone creature. Creatures can�t be tripped when they�re swimming (the water holds them up). Likewise, a burrowing creature is driving its body through a fairly solid medium that serves to hold it up.Hope that helps.