Chained double weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chained double weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheApokalypseShovel
03-09-07, 02:30 AM I was wondering if there were balanced stats for a chained double weapon such as a longsword/spiked chain combo.
Here were some of my ideas for one:

Chained Longsword
1d8/1d6 Crit 19-20 x2/x2 Slashing/Piercing

Exotic Double weapon (Requires EWP Chained Longsword)
A longsword with a longer than usual handle that ends with a spiked chain.
Longsword blade is treated like a longsword. The spiked chain end has a damage die equivalent of a spiked chain one size smaller.
The spiked chain end has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.
You can make trip attacks with the chain. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped.
When using the spiked chain end, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).
The Chained Longsword is a double weapon. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The character can also choose to use a double weapon two handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

Currently I think it is a little overpowered. I would like to keep the spiked chain's functionality so dropping the damage of that end to 1d4 is an option I'd consider first. Also given how the weapon is built a penalty to attack would also make sense. Any ideas on balancing the weapon would be helpful.
Peace
RobbyPants
03-09-07, 09:52 AM It seems like this could effectively be a spiked chain with one end that does slashing damage. I don't think the stats would really have to be different from the spiked chain (so then they'd be balanced). My only concern is chaning the other end's damage type to slashing. Having a slashing/piercing spiked chain is more versitle (and thus more useful) than the standard spiked chain...
Watchman
03-09-07, 10:29 AM I'd treat the chain end as a normal Reach weapon (ie. no attacks against foes next to you), myself, on the grounds that you only have one hand manipulating it and that just isn't going to be as tactically flexible as with two.

Which is what you have the sword side for, of course. If the other guy keeps his distance (and can't match the Reach) he gets smacked, disarmed and/or tripped with virtual impunity, if he comes close he eats an AoO and gets smacked with the sword.
Sounds like a plan to me. :D
kalstrand
03-10-07, 01:00 PM There is a chain in Oriental Aventures (no positive on book) that is a double bludgeoning weapon. It does not have reach and does like 1d6 damage for each end I think.
Jarii246
03-10-07, 02:39 PM Sword-chucks HO!!!
TheApokalypseShovel
03-10-07, 07:30 PM I'd treat the chain end as a normal Reach weapon (ie. no attacks against foes next to you), myself, on the grounds that you only have one hand manipulating it and that just isn't going to be as tactically flexible as with two.

Which is what you have the sword side for, of course. If the other guy keeps his distance (and can't match the Reach) he gets smacked, disarmed and/or tripped with virtual impunity, if he comes close he eats an AoO and gets smacked with the sword.
Sounds like a plan to me. :D

Doing that would kind of eliminate the benefit of it being a double weapon. Maybe a -4 penalty to attack up close with the chain, but you can still do it? It actually might be easier to use up close, since you wouldn't have to vary the length of the chain.

As for the double chain weapon in OA, there is already a dire flail in PHB which is a 1d8 double weapon that gives trips and disarm bonus.

Edit: I found the Gyrspike in the Arms and Equipment handbook which is very similar to what I want, except it's a flail/longsword combo. If it is balanced my question comes down to: is a drop in damage from 1d8 to 1d6 and a decreased critical equal to gaining reach?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheApokalypseShovel 03-09-07, 02:30 AM	I was wondering if there were balanced stats for a chained double weapon such as a longsword/spiked chain combo. Here were some of my ideas for one: Chained Longsword 1d8/1d6 Crit 19-20 x2/x2 Slashing/Piercing Exotic Double weapon (Requires EWP Chained Longsword) A longsword with a longer than usual handle that ends with a spiked chain. Longsword blade is treated like a longsword. The spiked chain end has a damage die equivalent of a spiked chain one size smaller. The spiked chain end has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe. You can make trip attacks with the chain. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped. When using the spiked chain end, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails). The Chained Longsword is a double weapon. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The character can also choose to use a double weapon two handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round. Currently I think it is a little overpowered. I would like to keep the spiked chain's functionality so dropping the damage of that end to 1d4 is an option I'd consider first. Also given how the weapon is built a penalty to attack would also make sense. Any ideas on balancing the weapon would be helpful. Peace
RobbyPants 03-09-07, 09:52 AM	It seems like this could effectively be a spiked chain with one end that does slashing damage. I don't think the stats would really have to be different from the spiked chain (so then they'd be balanced). My only concern is chaning the other end's damage type to slashing. Having a slashing/piercing spiked chain is more versitle (and thus more useful) than the standard spiked chain...
Watchman 03-09-07, 10:29 AM	I'd treat the chain end as a normal Reach weapon (ie. no attacks against foes next to you), myself, on the grounds that you only have one hand manipulating it and that just isn't going to be as tactically flexible as with two. Which is what you have the sword side for, of course. If the other guy keeps his distance (and can't match the Reach) he gets smacked, disarmed and/or tripped with virtual impunity, if he comes close he eats an AoO and gets smacked with the sword. Sounds like a plan to me. :D
kalstrand 03-10-07, 01:00 PM	There is a chain in Oriental Aventures (no positive on book) that is a double bludgeoning weapon. It does not have reach and does like 1d6 damage for each end I think.
Jarii246 03-10-07, 02:39 PM	Sword-chucks HO!!!
TheApokalypseShovel 03-10-07, 07:30 PM	I'd treat the chain end as a normal Reach weapon (ie. no attacks against foes next to you), myself, on the grounds that you only have one hand manipulating it and that just isn't going to be as tactically flexible as with two. Which is what you have the sword side for, of course. If the other guy keeps his distance (and can't match the Reach) he gets smacked, disarmed and/or tripped with virtual impunity, if he comes close he eats an AoO and gets smacked with the sword. Sounds like a plan to me. :D Doing that would kind of eliminate the benefit of it being a double weapon. Maybe a -4 penalty to attack up close with the chain, but you can still do it? It actually might be easier to use up close, since you wouldn't have to vary the length of the chain. As for the double chain weapon in OA, there is already a dire flail in PHB which is a 1d8 double weapon that gives trips and disarm bonus. Edit: I found the Gyrspike in the Arms and Equipment handbook which is very similar to what I want, except it's a flail/longsword combo. If it is balanced my question comes down to: is a drop in damage from 1d8 to 1d6 and a decreased critical equal to gaining reach?