Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ClownPaladin 09-18-07, 04:27 PM	Under 3.0 fules, in the description for the sunder attack, it mentions something about not being able to sunder an opponent's magic weapon unless yours has at least the same magical enhancement. 1) Does anyone have any idea why they removed this? 2) So in 3.5 (regardless of magic or mundane), all I have to do is calculate the target weapon's hardness & hit points (taking into account its magic enhancement if any) and then roll damage dealt by my weapon. Finally, subtract the hardness from the rolled damage to determine how much damage is actually dealt to the weapon. Is this correct? 3) I'm a little confused about calculating the hit points for weapons. It'll say something like 10 hp per inch of thickness. Take, for instance, a longsword. The blade itself is more than an inch wide, but it's probably only about one half or one quarter of an inch in thickness. Which measurement do I use to determine its hit points & hardness?
Vharuck 09-18-07, 04:33 PM	Under 3.0 fules, in the description for the sunder attack, it mentions something about not being able to sunder an opponent's magic weapon unless yours has at least the same magical enhancement. 1) Does anyone have any idea why they removed this? My guess is to make sundering, an already subpar tactic, more viable. 2) So in 3.5 (regardless of magic or mundane), all I have to do is calculate the target weapon's hardness & hit points (taking into account its magic enhancement if any) and then roll damage dealt by my weapon. Finally, subtract the hardness from the rolled damage to determine how much damage is actually dealt to the weapon. Is this correct? You are correct, sir. 3) I'm a little confused about calculating the hit points for weapons. It'll say something like 10 hp per inch of thickness. Take, for instance, a longsword. The blade itself is more than an inch wide, but it's probably only about one half or one quarter of an inch in thickness. Which measurement do I use to determine its hit points & hardness? Weapon hardnesses are detailed in either the PHB or the DMG, but here's the link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#tableCommonArmorWeaponAn dShieldHardnessAndHitPoints) to a page with the table. It also has hardnesses for other common items.
Voran 11-22-07, 07:36 PM	Kerzap, thread reboot. Personally, I'd keep the 'need more plusses than your target' to sunder stuff. Otherwise you can end up with wonky situations like, the guy with the regular sword sundering a +5 weapon with 50+ DR, cause he uses something like "Elder/Ancient Mountain Hammer" from the Stone Dragon move set. Though, technically speaking, since the target area for such a move is 'one creature or unattended object' you can't use the move to sunder a wielded sword/shield. Sundering, as adopted by a tactic on the boards, appears to happen way more often than it 'should'. If we fall back to our multi-media examples, sundering is a big deal. You see someone like Sauron do it, or have to run into someone wielding Shieldbreaker or something. Plus there's the funkiness of "Wait, using your lesser weapon, you hit my better weapon with enough force to damage it, but nothing happens to YOUR weapon?" I mean, my grasp on physics is a little shaky, but enough force to sunder one object, which has greater durability and such than the lesser object to break it, ...shouldn't that 'sunder' the lesser object used too?
Chase 11-22-07, 08:02 PM	This reminds me of the episode of mythbusters when they were trying to use swords to cut other swords. It was pretty rediculous the amount of force that had to be used, and as I remember the only time this actually worked was when they used a vintage katana vs. a cheapo katana. Some swords snapped when the super strong robot arm swung the katana, and it was also amusing to see them using claymores. It is mighty difficult to sunder a sword with another!
CrimsonDeath 11-22-07, 08:04 PM	I mean, my grasp on physics is a little shaky, but enough force to sunder one object, which has greater durability and such than the lesser object to break it, ...shouldn't that 'sunder' the lesser object used too? Depends on how the objects are built and where they hit. If the blade of one sword hits the flat of another, or if the blade of one axe hits the haft of another, then it's reasonable to expect for the striking blade to be fine (or chipped a little, at worst) while the struck weapon stands a good chance of breaking. But then, when you add magic, physics goes out the window anyway.
curtis_ownby 11-22-07, 08:40 PM	See page 222 of DMG top of the page. I like to go with a master work adamantine blade, this way sundering can be done to good affect even without the impoved sunder feat. See adamantine page 283. And you can always get the blade made magical later. (see pg.283 masterwork items)
RavenDrake 11-22-07, 08:45 PM	Keep in mind that "sundering" doesn't mean "sliced neatly in half before it does that cool slowmotion slide then fall off to one side". Sundering in D&D parlance simply means strike something in such as way as to render it effectively useless in it's chosen role. Sundering a door dosen't mean it's shattered into thousands of toothpicks, but it does mean that enough of the door has been damaged that it can on longer effectively bar the way. By the same token sundering a sword can mean you've struck it in such a way that the blade is severly warped or bent, or that you've broken the tang of the blade with the shock of your blow and the blade has fallen out of the hilt, etc. Not that such things were commonplace in actual hand to hand combat, usually, nor were they typically done on purpose by the opposing fighter. At least as far as weapons went. Sundering was implemented partly as a cinematic enhancement to the game because it's got a certain amount of coolness factor to it, and partly to cover the occasionaly player who's going to ask "Hey, can I attack the staff the evil wizard is trying to palce on the alter and destory it?"