Charging a Creature with a 10' Reach [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charging a Creature with a 10' Reach [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Goat Face
05-18-05, 05:02 PM If you only had a 5' reach, and were to use the Charge Attack against a creature with a 10' (or greater) reach, would you provoke an AoO from the creature by moving through that threatened area?
tarkin
05-18-05, 05:06 PM Yes.

Charging in and of itself does not cause AoO's, but it does not protect you against AoO's you generate from moving.

P.S. Hope he has not set his weapon to receive the charge...
Goat Face
05-18-05, 05:09 PM Thanks Tarkin!

Now tell me about Spring Attack in the same scenario...minus the charge that is.
Colmarr
05-18-05, 05:38 PM No AoO. The most valuable part of the feast is that you do not provoke AoOs from the target you attack, either before or after your attack. You still provoke AoOs from any other foes you may move past, though.
Elandar
05-19-05, 03:24 AM If the defender set his weapon to receive the charge, he could take an attack of opportunity when the attacker leaves the square 10 ft away from him, but is his weapon then still considered to be set to receive the charge?
Colmarr
05-19-05, 03:30 AM I must admit that I houserule "setting a weapon" as simply readying a suitable weapon to attack a certain opponent if the opponent comes into range. If the opponent then charges you, it counts as setting the weapon against a charge. If the opponent doesn't charge, but does come within range, you get the action but not the double damage.

Otherwise, "setting a weapon" is only useful against opponents that are between 1 and 2 move actions away from you.

Any less than that and they can simply move and attack; and because they didn't charge, the readied action doesn't go off.

Any more than that and they can't charge you anyway.
Elandar
05-19-05, 03:38 AM That sounds like a sensible ruling.

But what do you do in this case: Suppose an attacker charges a defender which is ready to receive an attack, and has reach. The attacker first provokes an attack of opportunity, then continues his charge and attacks the defender with his charge. Since the defender readied himself, he gets his normal attack before the attacker resolves his attack. Now my question is: on what attacks does the defender deal double damage for setting a weapon to receive a charge? First, second, or both?
Nom
05-19-05, 07:09 AM But what do you do in this case: Suppose an attacker charges a defender which is ready to receive an attack, and has reach. The attacker first provokes an attack of opportunity, then continues his charge and attacks the defender with his charge. Since the defender readied himself, he gets his normal attack before the attacker resolves his attack. Now my question is: on what attacks does the defender deal double damage for setting a weapon to receive a charge? First, second, or both?Your order is wrong. The readied action triggers when the defender comes within range, and this attack deals double damage. If the attacker continues moving and the defender has not yet used his AoO, then the defender may also make an AoO against the attacker, using the normal rules for AoOs. Bonus damage is not applicable to the AoO.

FWIW: I use the same house rule as Colmarr.
Krelios
05-19-05, 07:14 AM Your order is wrong. The readied action triggers when the defender comes within range, and this attack deals double damage. If the attacker continues moving and the defender has not yet used his AoO, then the defender may also make an AoO against the attacker, using the normal rules for AoOs. Bonus damage is not applicable to the AoO.

FWIW: I use the same house rule as Colmarr.100% in agreement here.
Dular Darkcloud
05-19-05, 04:12 PM Yes.

Charging in and of itself does not cause AoO's, but it does not protect you against AoO's you generate from moving.

P.S. Hope he has not set his weapon to receive the charge...

My local play group doesn't know this rule. How can I point it out to them in WotC core rules? "This one dude on the internet said..." won't be enough.
Colmarr
05-19-05, 06:48 PM From the SRD:

CHARGE
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)
If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.
You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush an opponent (see Bull Rush, above).
Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.
Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.
Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character.

Nothing in the rules for charge says you draw an AoO, so Charging in-and-of-itself does not trigger an AoO.

However:

Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.

Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot-step and the withdraw action (see below).

Performing a Distracting Act: Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Table: Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.

Remember that even actions that normally provoke attacks of opportunity may have exceptions to this rule.

The general rules (there are some exceptions) state that only two things provoke AoOs: moving out of a threatened square and taking a distracting act.

It can't be said that charging someone is distracting; it is directly related towards the enemy. However, if your opponent has reach, charging him will require you to leave the square 10' from him. As he threatens that square, he gets an AoO.

Further, if as part of your charge you move out of a square someone else threatens, they get an AoO too.

Don't forget that you take a -2 to AC when charging, and this applies to AoOs.
Nom
05-19-05, 08:28 PM See also note 1 on PH pg 141. If the action involves leaving a threatened square, it "usually" provokes an AoO. I'd define usually as "unless explicitly stated otherwise".

In fact, the entry for "move" should technically be "no" (declaring a move action doesn't provoke an AoO unless you move out of a threatened square while doing so) but that could be understandably confusing.

In the case of "charge", charging doesn't inherently provoke an AoO. However, neither the table nor the text explicitly say that movement done as part of a charge doesn't provoke an AoO, so it still does. The reason this is not mentioned is because a "typical" charge won't provoke an AoO - the first threatened square you enter is the one that you will attack from, and thus you never leave a threatened square.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goat Face 05-18-05, 05:02 PM	If you only had a 5' reach, and were to use the Charge Attack against a creature with a 10' (or greater) reach, would you provoke an AoO from the creature by moving through that threatened area?
tarkin 05-18-05, 05:06 PM	Yes. Charging in and of itself does not cause AoO's, but it does not protect you against AoO's you generate from moving. P.S. Hope he has not set his weapon to receive the charge...
Goat Face 05-18-05, 05:09 PM	Thanks Tarkin! Now tell me about Spring Attack in the same scenario...minus the charge that is.
Colmarr 05-18-05, 05:38 PM	No AoO. The most valuable part of the feast is that you do not provoke AoOs from the target you attack, either before or after your attack. You still provoke AoOs from any other foes you may move past, though.
Elandar 05-19-05, 03:24 AM	If the defender set his weapon to receive the charge, he could take an attack of opportunity when the attacker leaves the square 10 ft away from him, but is his weapon then still considered to be set to receive the charge?
Colmarr 05-19-05, 03:30 AM	I must admit that I houserule "setting a weapon" as simply readying a suitable weapon to attack a certain opponent if the opponent comes into range. If the opponent then charges you, it counts as setting the weapon against a charge. If the opponent doesn't charge, but does come within range, you get the action but not the double damage. Otherwise, "setting a weapon" is only useful against opponents that are between 1 and 2 move actions away from you. Any less than that and they can simply move and attack; and because they didn't charge, the readied action doesn't go off. Any more than that and they can't charge you anyway.
Elandar 05-19-05, 03:38 AM	That sounds like a sensible ruling. But what do you do in this case: Suppose an attacker charges a defender which is ready to receive an attack, and has reach. The attacker first provokes an attack of opportunity, then continues his charge and attacks the defender with his charge. Since the defender readied himself, he gets his normal attack before the attacker resolves his attack. Now my question is: on what attacks does the defender deal double damage for setting a weapon to receive a charge? First, second, or both?
Nom 05-19-05, 07:09 AM	But what do you do in this case: Suppose an attacker charges a defender which is ready to receive an attack, and has reach. The attacker first provokes an attack of opportunity, then continues his charge and attacks the defender with his charge. Since the defender readied himself, he gets his normal attack before the attacker resolves his attack. Now my question is: on what attacks does the defender deal double damage for setting a weapon to receive a charge? First, second, or both?Your order is wrong. The readied action triggers when the defender comes within range, and this attack deals double damage. If the attacker continues moving and the defender has not yet used his AoO, then the defender may also make an AoO against the attacker, using the normal rules for AoOs. Bonus damage is not applicable to the AoO. FWIW: I use the same house rule as Colmarr.
Krelios 05-19-05, 07:14 AM	Your order is wrong. The readied action triggers when the defender comes within range, and this attack deals double damage. If the attacker continues moving and the defender has not yet used his AoO, then the defender may also make an AoO against the attacker, using the normal rules for AoOs. Bonus damage is not applicable to the AoO. FWIW: I use the same house rule as Colmarr.100% in agreement here.
Dular Darkcloud 05-19-05, 04:12 PM	Yes. Charging in and of itself does not cause AoO's, but it does not protect you against AoO's you generate from moving. P.S. Hope he has not set his weapon to receive the charge... My local play group doesn't know this rule. How can I point it out to them in WotC core rules? "This one dude on the internet said..." won't be enough.
Colmarr 05-19-05, 06:48 PM	From the SRD: CHARGE Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move. Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent. You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge. If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn. Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn. A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush an opponent (see Bull Rush, above). Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge. Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge. Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character. Nothing in the rules for charge says you draw an AoO, so Charging in-and-of-itself does not trigger an AoO. However: Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square. Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot-step and the withdraw action (see below). Performing a Distracting Act: Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Table: Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity. Remember that even actions that normally provoke attacks of opportunity may have exceptions to this rule. The general rules (there are some exceptions) state that only two things provoke AoOs: moving out of a threatened square and taking a distracting act. It can't be said that charging someone is distracting; it is directly related towards the enemy. However, if your opponent has reach, charging him will require you to leave the square 10' from him. As he threatens that square, he gets an AoO. Further, if as part of your charge you move out of a square someone else threatens, they get an AoO too. Don't forget that you take a -2 to AC when charging, and this applies to AoOs.
Nom 05-19-05, 08:28 PM	See also note 1 on PH pg 141. If the action involves leaving a threatened square, it "usually" provokes an AoO. I'd define usually as "unless explicitly stated otherwise". In fact, the entry for "move" should technically be "no" (declaring a move action doesn't provoke an AoO unless you move out of a threatened square while doing so) but that could be understandably confusing. In the case of "charge", charging doesn't inherently provoke an AoO. However, neither the table nor the text explicitly say that movement done as part of a charge doesn't provoke an AoO, so it still does. The reason this is not mentioned is because a "typical" charge won't provoke an AoO - the first threatened square you enter is the one that you will attack from, and thus you never leave a threatened square.