Charging and AoO's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charging and AoO's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
talannar
02-01-05, 09:40 AM This is an ongoing debate in our gaming group of 6. When you charge an opponent in combat that opponent does not get an AoO against you. Now, lets consider if the opponent you are charging has reach. 5 out of 6 members in the group are absolutely positive that, even if the opponent has reach, they do NOT get an AoO against the charging character.

The five of us are positive that we read that this true somewhere but can't remember where. Does anyone know where we would remember this rule from? Dragon maybe?
Ilium
02-01-05, 09:50 AM Actually I'm pretty sure a reach weapon DOES get the AoO. Otherwise you would never use a pike to set for a cavalry charge, etc. There's nothing in the description of Charge that says the target doesn't get any AoO he would normally get for your movement.

Of course, if the charging character ALSO has reach (like with a lance) then his "nearest square you can attack from" won't provoke an AoO from the target.
Banjo Baggins
02-01-05, 10:28 AM You may be remembering the no AoOs in a mounted charge when you have the Ride-By attack feat. Though, in spirit, I think this was intended to protect you from the AoOs you would otherwise provoke in the Ride-By after the attack and would not protect you from the AoO of a reach weapon as you approached. After all, as noted in the previous reply, that's what pikes are for.
tarkin
02-01-05, 12:33 PM Charging in and of itself does not provoke an AoO.

However, it does nto grant any immunity to AoO's.

So if you do not have a reach weapon and you charge someone with a reach weapon, you DO take an AoO.

This is official, sage confirmed rule.
Naeron
02-01-05, 12:40 PM Charging an opponent does not trigger an AoO for choosing the charge action, which is why charge has 'AoO: No' in its entry in the actions table. However all the actions in the table operate under Footnote 1 for that column which states "Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity."

So when you charge a target you will provoke AoO's as normal for exiting threatened squares because Charge does not specifically exclude movement based AoOs so falls under the "usually" category.

An exception here is with the Ride-By-Attack feat which states that you do not suffer an AoO from the opponent that you attack (but do from other opponents).

So yes, if you charge an opponent with greater reach than your own you will trigger a possible AoO as you leave threatened squares.
kjenks
02-01-05, 03:22 PM Tarkin and Naeron have it right, but there's an interesting feat, Hold the Line from Complete Warrior, that gives a character an extra AoO when someone charges into a threatened square.

Much fun when combined with Spring Attack or Ride-by Attack: After you poke an opponent and move away, if he charges you, you get another attack on him. This works especially well with a reach weapon and Improved Trip.
Nom
02-01-05, 04:55 PM Note that if you ready an attack action with a reach weapon and the opponent charges you then you get two attacks. The first occurs as he enters your threatened area (and the ready action triggers and you possibly receive the ready vs charge damage bonus) and the second as he leaves it (the AoO triggers, incidentally using your AoO for the turn). Without a reach weapon, you get only the readied attack.

Thought: strictly speaking, table 8-2 could read "Move: No", since taking a regular move does not provoke an AoO, but only moving out of a threatened square as part of that move. But that's a pretty fine distinction that could cause way more confusion than it solves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
talannar 02-01-05, 09:40 AM	This is an ongoing debate in our gaming group of 6. When you charge an opponent in combat that opponent does not get an AoO against you. Now, lets consider if the opponent you are charging has reach. 5 out of 6 members in the group are absolutely positive that, even if the opponent has reach, they do NOT get an AoO against the charging character. The five of us are positive that we read that this true somewhere but can't remember where. Does anyone know where we would remember this rule from? Dragon maybe?
Ilium 02-01-05, 09:50 AM	Actually I'm pretty sure a reach weapon DOES get the AoO. Otherwise you would never use a pike to set for a cavalry charge, etc. There's nothing in the description of Charge that says the target doesn't get any AoO he would normally get for your movement. Of course, if the charging character ALSO has reach (like with a lance) then his "nearest square you can attack from" won't provoke an AoO from the target.
Banjo Baggins 02-01-05, 10:28 AM	You may be remembering the no AoOs in a mounted charge when you have the Ride-By attack feat. Though, in spirit, I think this was intended to protect you from the AoOs you would otherwise provoke in the Ride-By after the attack and would not protect you from the AoO of a reach weapon as you approached. After all, as noted in the previous reply, that's what pikes are for.
tarkin 02-01-05, 12:33 PM	Charging in and of itself does not provoke an AoO. However, it does nto grant any immunity to AoO's. So if you do not have a reach weapon and you charge someone with a reach weapon, you DO take an AoO. This is official, sage confirmed rule.
Naeron 02-01-05, 12:40 PM	Charging an opponent does not trigger an AoO for choosing the charge action, which is why charge has 'AoO: No' in its entry in the actions table. However all the actions in the table operate under Footnote 1 for that column which states "Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity." So when you charge a target you will provoke AoO's as normal for exiting threatened squares because Charge does not specifically exclude movement based AoOs so falls under the "usually" category. An exception here is with the Ride-By-Attack feat which states that you do not suffer an AoO from the opponent that you attack (but do from other opponents). So yes, if you charge an opponent with greater reach than your own you will trigger a possible AoO as you leave threatened squares.
kjenks 02-01-05, 03:22 PM	Tarkin and Naeron have it right, but there's an interesting feat, Hold the Line from Complete Warrior, that gives a character an extra AoO when someone charges into a threatened square. Much fun when combined with Spring Attack or Ride-by Attack: After you poke an opponent and move away, if he charges you, you get another attack on him. This works especially well with a reach weapon and Improved Trip.
Nom 02-01-05, 04:55 PM	Note that if you ready an attack action with a reach weapon and the opponent charges you then you get two attacks. The first occurs as he enters your threatened area (and the ready action triggers and you possibly receive the ready vs charge damage bonus) and the second as he leaves it (the AoO triggers, incidentally using your AoO for the turn). Without a reach weapon, you get only the readied attack. Thought: strictly speaking, table 8-2 could read "Move: No", since taking a regular move does not provoke an AoO, but only moving out of a threatened square as part of that move. But that's a pretty fine distinction that could cause way more confusion than it solves.