Charging and Reach [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charging and Reach [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SilentLucidity
10-16-07, 08:09 PM I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. But others in my group say that you do get AoO when someone has reach which to me defeats the whole purpose of charging and getting no AoO. So, anyone know if there is something written that covers this ruling?
mvincent
10-16-07, 08:15 PM I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. But others in my group say that you do get AoO when someone has reach which to me defeats the whole purpose of charging and getting no AoO. So, anyone know if there is something written that covers this ruling?Charge has the following footnote on the Standard Action table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions):
"Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity."

Movement from charging provokes as normal.
antiduke
10-17-07, 01:03 PM So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge?
Salla
10-17-07, 01:24 PM So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge?

If the person has a reach weapon, you provoke when you move out of their threatened squares, which occurs at 10' range, on your way to the 5' range at which you can attack, whether or not you're charging or just advancing. Performing the attack at the end of a charge does not provoke an AoO; it's the moving that does it.
Slimgauge
10-17-07, 01:26 PM So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go?

There is none as far as AoOs go. The advantage of a charge is the ability to move farther than a single move action would take you and the +2 to hit. The disadvantage is the tight restrictions on the move (straight line, no difficult terrain), the restriction to a single attack, and the -2 to AC.

You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action

If they have reach, just moving up to someone DOES provoke an AoO, as you leave the square they have reach into to move into the adjacent square.

why is it stated specifically different for charge?

The charge does not provoke an AoO simply for being a charge action (unlike, say, Coup De Grace) but the movement you make as the first part of a charge does.

edit:Ninja'd
jaelis
10-17-07, 01:46 PM So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge?

It doesn't... a charge provokes exactly the same way that normal movement does, which is what the rule is trying to say.
mvincent
10-17-07, 03:05 PM So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? Charges have no advantage in regard to AoO's

You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard actionYou do if they have reach (which is what is being discussed)
frankthedm
10-17-07, 09:19 PM I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. IF that table said "Charge |AoO?| Yes" that would mean people got an AoO on you as you entered thier threat during a charge.
tyrecian
10-18-07, 01:20 AM what about using ride-by-attack, which states, from the SRD:

When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.

does that mean that you dont even provoke for moving (since its part of a charge action) through the threatened squares of your target, even if he has reach? (although you provoke as normal from his friends around him) In that case this would be one way that you could take a feat tree to avoid the AoO, but i am unclear on this, since we are talking about reach... :P
PantherFern
10-18-07, 01:48 AM I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. But others in my group say that you do get AoO when someone has reach which to me defeats the whole purpose of charging and getting no AoO. So, anyone know if there is something written that covers this ruling?

They seem to have covered the rules already.

Just try and think about the situation logically, in a real-world setting without the D&D rules. You're running at a guy who has an 8ft ranseur pointed at you. You bet your butt he's going to take a stab at you while you're trying to clear those long feet between the tip and his body that you're trying to hit. Just hope he doesn't disarm you on your way in :eek:
Steevo
10-18-07, 02:09 AM So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge?

You do provoke an AoO if you move up to some with reach greater than 5', since they threaten all spaces 10' out, and you have to move through those spaces.

You do not provoke if the target of the charge only has 5' reach.

This is also how it works if you charge. If you charge someone with reach, you provoke on the way in. If you charge someone without reach, you do not provoke. There is no advantage with regards to AoOs. The advantage is you get +2 to hit.
Killydd
10-18-07, 03:36 AM what about using ride-by-attack, which states, from the SRD:

does that mean that you dont even provoke for moving (since its part of a charge action) through the threatened squares of your target, even if he has reach? (although you provoke as normal from his friends around him) In that case this would be one way that you could take a feat tree to avoid the AoO, but i am unclear on this, since we are talking about reach... :P

This, like the wording in Spring Attack, is a case of the feat changing the rules for that specific situation. And yes, I believe you have exactly the correct interpretation here.
mvincent
10-18-07, 11:56 AM does that mean that you dont even provoke for moving (since its part of a charge action) through the threatened squares of your target, even if he has reach? (although you provoke as normal from his friends around him)Yup.
antiduke
10-18-07, 12:35 PM Speaking of the ride-by-attack feat, I have another question about mounted charging. Do you charge someone to the side or directly when mounted? Logically I would assume to a side since you are hitting them with your lance and then moving by them. Otherwise you would be moving through them, correct?
mvincent
10-18-07, 12:41 PM Speaking of the ride-by-attack feat, I have another question about mounted charging. Do you charge someone to the side or directly when mounted? Logically I would assume to a side since you are hitting them with your lance and then moving by them. Otherwise you would be moving through them, correct?Yup. From the 3.5 FAQ:
"When using the Ride-By attack feat, you must conduct your
charge so that you move in a straight line toward the closest
square from which it is possible to attack your chosen foe, so
long as it is a square that allows you to attack and then continue
on in the straight line of the charge. You still must attack your
foe the moment you reach that square. (Although the feat
description doesn’t say so, you and your mount also must move
at least 5 feet after you make your attack to get the benefit of
the feat.) This is a special rule for charging when using the
Ride-By Attack feat."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SilentLucidity 10-16-07, 08:09 PM	I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. But others in my group say that you do get AoO when someone has reach which to me defeats the whole purpose of charging and getting no AoO. So, anyone know if there is something written that covers this ruling?
mvincent 10-16-07, 08:15 PM	I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. But others in my group say that you do get AoO when someone has reach which to me defeats the whole purpose of charging and getting no AoO. So, anyone know if there is something written that covers this ruling?Charge has the following footnote on the Standard Action table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions): "Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity." Movement from charging provokes as normal.
antiduke 10-17-07, 01:03 PM	So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge?
Salla 10-17-07, 01:24 PM	So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge? If the person has a reach weapon, you provoke when you move out of their threatened squares, which occurs at 10' range, on your way to the 5' range at which you can attack, whether or not you're charging or just advancing. Performing the attack at the end of a charge does not provoke an AoO; it's the moving that does it.
Slimgauge 10-17-07, 01:26 PM	So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? There is none as far as AoOs go. The advantage of a charge is the ability to move farther than a single move action would take you and the +2 to hit. The disadvantage is the tight restrictions on the move (straight line, no difficult terrain), the restriction to a single attack, and the -2 to AC. You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action If they have reach, just moving up to someone DOES provoke an AoO, as you leave the square they have reach into to move into the adjacent square. why is it stated specifically different for charge? The charge does not provoke an AoO simply for being a charge action (unlike, say, Coup De Grace) but the movement you make as the first part of a charge does. edit:Ninja'd
jaelis 10-17-07, 01:46 PM	So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge? It doesn't... a charge provokes exactly the same way that normal movement does, which is what the rule is trying to say.
mvincent 10-17-07, 03:05 PM	So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? Charges have no advantage in regard to AoO's You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard actionYou do if they have reach (which is what is being discussed)
frankthedm 10-17-07, 09:19 PM	I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. IF that table said "Charge \|AoO?\| Yes" that would mean people got an AoO on you as you entered thier threat during a charge.
tyrecian 10-18-07, 01:20 AM	what about using ride-by-attack, which states, from the SRD: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack. does that mean that you dont even provoke for moving (since its part of a charge action) through the threatened squares of your target, even if he has reach? (although you provoke as normal from his friends around him) In that case this would be one way that you could take a feat tree to avoid the AoO, but i am unclear on this, since we are talking about reach... :P
PantherFern 10-18-07, 01:48 AM	I couldn't find a place anywhere in the base books on this subject. For the Charge action, it says there is no AoO. But others in my group say that you do get AoO when someone has reach which to me defeats the whole purpose of charging and getting no AoO. So, anyone know if there is something written that covers this ruling? They seem to have covered the rules already. Just try and think about the situation logically, in a real-world setting without the D&D rules. You're running at a guy who has an 8ft ranseur pointed at you. You bet your butt he's going to take a stab at you while you're trying to clear those long feet between the tip and his body that you're trying to hit. Just hope he doesn't disarm you on your way in :eek:
Steevo 10-18-07, 02:09 AM	So what, then is the advantage of charging as far as AoO's go? You don't provoke an aoo from just moving up to someone and attacking them via a normal move and standard action so why is it stated specifically different for charge? You do provoke an AoO if you move up to some with reach greater than 5', since they threaten all spaces 10' out, and you have to move through those spaces. You do not provoke if the target of the charge only has 5' reach. This is also how it works if you charge. If you charge someone with reach, you provoke on the way in. If you charge someone without reach, you do not provoke. There is no advantage with regards to AoOs. The advantage is you get +2 to hit.
Killydd 10-18-07, 03:36 AM	what about using ride-by-attack, which states, from the SRD: does that mean that you dont even provoke for moving (since its part of a charge action) through the threatened squares of your target, even if he has reach? (although you provoke as normal from his friends around him) In that case this would be one way that you could take a feat tree to avoid the AoO, but i am unclear on this, since we are talking about reach... :P This, like the wording in Spring Attack, is a case of the feat changing the rules for that specific situation. And yes, I believe you have exactly the correct interpretation here.
mvincent 10-18-07, 11:56 AM	does that mean that you dont even provoke for moving (since its part of a charge action) through the threatened squares of your target, even if he has reach? (although you provoke as normal from his friends around him)Yup.
antiduke 10-18-07, 12:35 PM	Speaking of the ride-by-attack feat, I have another question about mounted charging. Do you charge someone to the side or directly when mounted? Logically I would assume to a side since you are hitting them with your lance and then moving by them. Otherwise you would be moving through them, correct?
mvincent 10-18-07, 12:41 PM	Speaking of the ride-by-attack feat, I have another question about mounted charging. Do you charge someone to the side or directly when mounted? Logically I would assume to a side since you are hitting them with your lance and then moving by them. Otherwise you would be moving through them, correct?Yup. From the 3.5 FAQ: "When using the Ride-By attack feat, you must conduct your charge so that you move in a straight line toward the closest square from which it is possible to attack your chosen foe, so long as it is a square that allows you to attack and then continue on in the straight line of the charge. You still must attack your foe the moment you reach that square. (Although the feat description doesn’t say so, you and your mount also must move at least 5 feet after you make your attack to get the benefit of the feat.) This is a special rule for charging when using the Ride-By Attack feat."