Charging through trees. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charging through trees. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dragonteuthis
04-08-07, 07:30 PM I'm reading up on a printed adventure I plan to throw at my players next time we meet up, and while reading it I stumbled across an interesting tidbit.

In one particular encounter, the terrain includes trees (see DMG page 87 for details). It also mentions that the foes in that area will charge if possible. I read up on trees, and I re-read the charging section (PHB page 154-155), and I'm not sure how I should rule this.

Basically, the rules technically allow charging through a square with a typical tree.

But what about the spirit of the rules? It would seem to me, if you can't charge through an ally's square, why should you be able to charge through a tree's square? Of course, I guess a tree won't accidentally stumble into you, but still...

I'm looking for opinions, guys, I really am not sure which way to rule. Thanks in advance :)
draconic_swine
04-08-07, 07:43 PM Charging says that "nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). I'm not sure about the designer of the adventure you read, but to me trees, even those placed in the centre of the square and not taking up the entire square, present an obstacle that would prevent charging. As A DM, I'd say no to anyone trying to charge through trees.
Kursk
04-08-07, 07:47 PM Charging says that "nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). I'm not sure about the designer of the adventure you read, but to me trees, even those placed in the centre of the square and not taking up the entire square, present an obstacle that would prevent charging. As A DM, I'd say no to anyone trying to charge through trees.

Agreed. If it is in a square you have to charge through then no charge.
Dragonteuthis
04-08-07, 09:06 PM Charging says that "nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles).

Yeah, that's why I was uncertain. Trees don't hinder your movement at all. Of course, neither do allies, so I guess I should treat trees like allies...thanks, both of you :)
Iver Gearsham
04-08-07, 10:54 PM Look at the positioning of the trees and the foes and the ground in between the PCs.

If the foes are using trees for cover and the ground they need to charge through has little to no trees then they should be able to charge.
bobothechimp
04-08-07, 11:33 PM As you said, the foes "will charge if possible."
Nom
04-08-07, 11:35 PM Yeah, that's why I was uncertain. Trees don't hinder your movement at all. Of course, neither do allies, so I guess I should treat trees like allies...thanks, both of you :)Trees and allies both fail on the "clear path" restriction, even if they don't fall foul of the "hinder your movement" restriction (PH pg 154).
mvincent
04-09-07, 12:02 AM In one particular encounter, the terrain includes trees (see DMG page 87 for details). It also mentions that the foes in that area will charge if possible. I read up on trees, and I re-read the charging section (PHB page 154-155), and I'm not sure how I should rule this.

Basically, the rules technically allow charging through a square with a typical tree. Strictly by RAW: non-massive tree trunks in D&D (likely about 1' wide) do not hinder movement and so you can charge through them (it could be assumed that they are one side of a 5' square):
"A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves (these bonuses don’t stack with cover bonuses from other sources). The presence of a tree doesn’t otherwise affect a creature’s fighting space, because it’s assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can. The trunk of a typical tree has AC 4, hardness 5, and 150 hp. A DC 15 Climb check is sufficient to climb a tree. Medium and dense forests have massive trees as well. These trees take up an entire square and provide cover to anyone behind them"

There is sometimes need for DM adjudication here anyway though (like for example: if a huge creature tried to charge through a trunk that was in the center square of its 15' frontage).
Dragonteuthis
04-09-07, 12:31 AM Strictly by RAW: non-massive tree trunks in D&D (likely about 1' wide) do not hinder movement and so you can charge through them (it could be assumed that they are one side of a 5' square).

I am aware of that. However, I get the feeling the charging rules weren't written with trees in mind, so I wanted to get a feel for the intent, rather than the letter.
Dragonteuthis
04-09-07, 12:33 AM Trees and allies both fail on the "clear path" restriction, even if they don't fall foul of the "hinder your movement" restriction (PH pg 154).

The definition of "clear path" that they give does not mention trees, or anything like trees. They don't hinder or slow movement, nor are they a creature (those are the only things that block a clear path).
mvincent
04-09-07, 12:53 AM I get the feeling the charging rules weren't written with trees in mind, so I wanted to get a feel for the intent, rather than the letter.I personally feel that it would be possible to charge through areas that are partially occupied by trees.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragonteuthis 04-08-07, 07:30 PM	I'm reading up on a printed adventure I plan to throw at my players next time we meet up, and while reading it I stumbled across an interesting tidbit. In one particular encounter, the terrain includes trees (see DMG page 87 for details). It also mentions that the foes in that area will charge if possible. I read up on trees, and I re-read the charging section (PHB page 154-155), and I'm not sure how I should rule this. Basically, the rules technically allow charging through a square with a typical tree. But what about the spirit of the rules? It would seem to me, if you can't charge through an ally's square, why should you be able to charge through a tree's square? Of course, I guess a tree won't accidentally stumble into you, but still... I'm looking for opinions, guys, I really am not sure which way to rule. Thanks in advance :)
draconic_swine 04-08-07, 07:43 PM	Charging says that "nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). I'm not sure about the designer of the adventure you read, but to me trees, even those placed in the centre of the square and not taking up the entire square, present an obstacle that would prevent charging. As A DM, I'd say no to anyone trying to charge through trees.
Kursk 04-08-07, 07:47 PM	Charging says that "nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). I'm not sure about the designer of the adventure you read, but to me trees, even those placed in the centre of the square and not taking up the entire square, present an obstacle that would prevent charging. As A DM, I'd say no to anyone trying to charge through trees. Agreed. If it is in a square you have to charge through then no charge.
Dragonteuthis 04-08-07, 09:06 PM	Charging says that "nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Yeah, that's why I was uncertain. Trees don't hinder your movement at all. Of course, neither do allies, so I guess I should treat trees like allies...thanks, both of you :)
Iver Gearsham 04-08-07, 10:54 PM	Look at the positioning of the trees and the foes and the ground in between the PCs. If the foes are using trees for cover and the ground they need to charge through has little to no trees then they should be able to charge.
bobothechimp 04-08-07, 11:33 PM	As you said, the foes "will charge if possible."
Nom 04-08-07, 11:35 PM	Yeah, that's why I was uncertain. Trees don't hinder your movement at all. Of course, neither do allies, so I guess I should treat trees like allies...thanks, both of you :)Trees and allies both fail on the "clear path" restriction, even if they don't fall foul of the "hinder your movement" restriction (PH pg 154).
mvincent 04-09-07, 12:02 AM	In one particular encounter, the terrain includes trees (see DMG page 87 for details). It also mentions that the foes in that area will charge if possible. I read up on trees, and I re-read the charging section (PHB page 154-155), and I'm not sure how I should rule this. Basically, the rules technically allow charging through a square with a typical tree. Strictly by RAW: non-massive tree trunks in D&D (likely about 1' wide) do not hinder movement and so you can charge through them (it could be assumed that they are one side of a 5' square): "A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves (these bonuses don’t stack with cover bonuses from other sources). The presence of a tree doesn’t otherwise affect a creature’s fighting space, because it’s assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can. The trunk of a typical tree has AC 4, hardness 5, and 150 hp. A DC 15 Climb check is sufficient to climb a tree. Medium and dense forests have massive trees as well. These trees take up an entire square and provide cover to anyone behind them" There is sometimes need for DM adjudication here anyway though (like for example: if a huge creature tried to charge through a trunk that was in the center square of its 15' frontage).
Dragonteuthis 04-09-07, 12:31 AM	Strictly by RAW: non-massive tree trunks in D&D (likely about 1' wide) do not hinder movement and so you can charge through them (it could be assumed that they are one side of a 5' square). I am aware of that. However, I get the feeling the charging rules weren't written with trees in mind, so I wanted to get a feel for the intent, rather than the letter.
Dragonteuthis 04-09-07, 12:33 AM	Trees and allies both fail on the "clear path" restriction, even if they don't fall foul of the "hinder your movement" restriction (PH pg 154). The definition of "clear path" that they give does not mention trees, or anything like trees. They don't hinder or slow movement, nor are they a creature (those are the only things that block a clear path).
mvincent 04-09-07, 12:53 AM	I get the feeling the charging rules weren't written with trees in mind, so I wanted to get a feel for the intent, rather than the letter.I personally feel that it would be possible to charge through areas that are partially occupied by trees.