Charging with a spear [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charging with a spear [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tc12
10-30-05, 07:22 PM OK, so a spear set against someone charging does double damage. And a lance does double damage when you charge with it. So why does a spear NOT do double damage if you make a melee charge with it? Is there any melee reach weapon of a spear or polearm class that does double damage when you charge?

Seems there should be, there isn't much functional difference in the real mechanics of you charging versus setting to receive a charge. It seems to take some of the value out of choosing this type of melee weapon. I must be missing something but this is one rule that's never made much sense to me.

Thanks.

TC
Jaid
10-30-05, 08:29 PM the difference between charging with a spear and being charged with a spear:

when you are being charged at, and you have a spear, you place the base of the spear on the ground, plant your foot on top of it, and point it at the person who is charging. this means, when they hit the spear they are either attempting to push the butt of the spear through the earth, or that they are trying to push the earth. now the earth somewhat outweighs the average person, so naturally, they don't push the earth back. the earth is also fairly resistant to having a fairly blunt object (the butt of a spear) shoved through it.

net result: the charging person keeps moving forward, the spear stands still.

now compare that to when you are charging with a spear; it is only you vs them. if you happen to be bigger than usual, or they happen to be smaller than usual, that is reflected by the fact that you have a strength bonus from size. (and are using a larger, and therefore more damaging, weapon) if they are smaller, that is reflected in them having a lower constitution (generally speaking, that is... it's one of those things that changes with size, iirc, anyways).

similar thing with a lance; the lance is designed to grant the benefit of your mass + the horse's mass, while being held in such a way as to not be pushed back as easily, thus resulting in the lance going through things more easily (less energy is wasted by being knocked backwards).

in other words, the rules reflect reality reasonably well, IMO.
tarkin
10-31-05, 07:45 AM I agree that the rules are realistic.

But I think your example had it backwards.

Charging with a lance is not equivelent to receiving with a spear, it is a 'superior' ability. That is why Spirited Charge can increase it even more.

Spears are set up to receive the charge of one person/animal, as such, they are designed to deal with only say 200-800 lbs moving at say 20-30 mph.

Lances are however set up to take two heavily armored knights on horses, charging each other. That is about 2000 lbs, moving at about a relative speed of 60 mph

Lances are basically much stronger than spears. They can take the force

Spears are weaker than lances, even a good boar spear. They simply can not take the force of the full out charge.

Now, you do have a better argument for Lances being able to be set to receive a charge.
roetroc
11-01-05, 01:28 AM Of course this assumes that you are talking about later medieval knights at tournament. You know, when handguns were becoming very popular on the battlefield.

Early knights, say around the time of William Marshall, wore chainmail (by the PHB definition) and charged at each other with lances that are pretty much indistinguishable from spears.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tc12 10-30-05, 07:22 PM	OK, so a spear set against someone charging does double damage. And a lance does double damage when you charge with it. So why does a spear NOT do double damage if you make a melee charge with it? Is there any melee reach weapon of a spear or polearm class that does double damage when you charge? Seems there should be, there isn't much functional difference in the real mechanics of you charging versus setting to receive a charge. It seems to take some of the value out of choosing this type of melee weapon. I must be missing something but this is one rule that's never made much sense to me. Thanks. TC
Jaid 10-30-05, 08:29 PM	the difference between charging with a spear and being charged with a spear: when you are being charged at, and you have a spear, you place the base of the spear on the ground, plant your foot on top of it, and point it at the person who is charging. this means, when they hit the spear they are either attempting to push the butt of the spear through the earth, or that they are trying to push the earth. now the earth somewhat outweighs the average person, so naturally, they don't push the earth back. the earth is also fairly resistant to having a fairly blunt object (the butt of a spear) shoved through it. net result: the charging person keeps moving forward, the spear stands still. now compare that to when you are charging with a spear; it is only you vs them. if you happen to be bigger than usual, or they happen to be smaller than usual, that is reflected by the fact that you have a strength bonus from size. (and are using a larger, and therefore more damaging, weapon) if they are smaller, that is reflected in them having a lower constitution (generally speaking, that is... it's one of those things that changes with size, iirc, anyways). similar thing with a lance; the lance is designed to grant the benefit of your mass + the horse's mass, while being held in such a way as to not be pushed back as easily, thus resulting in the lance going through things more easily (less energy is wasted by being knocked backwards). in other words, the rules reflect reality reasonably well, IMO.
tarkin 10-31-05, 07:45 AM	I agree that the rules are realistic. But I think your example had it backwards. Charging with a lance is not equivelent to receiving with a spear, it is a 'superior' ability. That is why Spirited Charge can increase it even more. Spears are set up to receive the charge of one person/animal, as such, they are designed to deal with only say 200-800 lbs moving at say 20-30 mph. Lances are however set up to take two heavily armored knights on horses, charging each other. That is about 2000 lbs, moving at about a relative speed of 60 mph Lances are basically much stronger than spears. They can take the force Spears are weaker than lances, even a good boar spear. They simply can not take the force of the full out charge. Now, you do have a better argument for Lances being able to be set to receive a charge.
roetroc 11-01-05, 01:28 AM	Of course this assumes that you are talking about later medieval knights at tournament. You know, when handguns were becoming very popular on the battlefield. Early knights, say around the time of William Marshall, wore chainmail (by the PHB definition) and charged at each other with lances that are pretty much indistinguishable from spears.