Post/Author/DateTime	Post
necrosnoop110 06-17-05, 04:42 PM	What is the cheapest item that will allow a re-roll on a failed save? I know of the luckblade but it's pretty expensive, anything cheaper? Thanks, Necro
princelian 06-17-05, 05:06 PM	By the RAW, I have no idea. There are old 2nd Ed. spells that let you do that, but the only way in 3.0+ that I know of is the Luck Domain's ability to reroll a bad roll once per day. Consequently, take a level of cleric, following a deity that gets the Luck Domain. Those cure light wounds spells will come in handy, anyway.
Dalthbar 06-17-05, 05:13 PM	One level of cleric will become close to useless at higher levels. I wouldn't take one just because you want one ability. Seems like a waste to me.
tarkin 06-17-05, 05:33 PM	I strongly Disagree with Dalbart. Go for The Domains of Luck and Travel. The two domain powers are very usefull. Buy clerical scrolls, wands, etc. You get the first level boost to saving throws, which helps a lot. If you go mainly fighter, you will have lots of feats to play with, so youmight use a regular feat to convert your turn attempts to something more combat oriented. The LongStrider spell (Travel Domain) lasts for 1 hour/level, which is easily enough to help out your speed, so you might try for the SPiked Chain build. Cause Feat is good till level 5, after that you can still memorize things like Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil, Obscuring Mist, some of which are solid spells even up in 20th level
redkite 06-17-05, 05:50 PM	Also with one level of Cleric, you can use the divine feats from Complete Warrior (Divine Vigor - movement and temp hpts for the otherwise useless lvl 1 turn undead use). And there is a Lvl 1 or 2 spell in the Complete Divine that allows a reroll for a failed save (good for other party members) within a certain time frame (I think its called Resurgence).
necrosnoop110 06-17-05, 05:52 PM	Found it: Phaant's Luckstone 1,000gp (Ghostwalk, pg 72) Grants one reroll and then turns into dust (one use item)
princelian 06-20-05, 05:08 PM	1000 gp for a one use item seems kinda pricey to me. A luckblade without wishes costs 22,000-odd gp. Over the course of your mid-to-high-level adventuring career (from the point you could afford such a weapon), you'll probably want to reroll more than 22 rolls, so it's cheaper to go with the luckblade long-term. Me, I'd rather have a level or two of Luck-domained cleric if the rerolling thing was that important to me....my build would probably be even-levels rogue/cleric (1/1 2/2 3/3, etc.) if I wanted that kind of ability. Or maybe a bit more on the rogue side than cleric if I wanted good thieving skill ranks (which makes the reroll ability very handy). Say rogue 4/cleric 2 and hold that ratio. The higher Disable Device with the latter build makes the reroll ability less of an issue, but when you need it, it's there. A purely cleric build doesn't really appeal to me unless it's a religion with a suitable supporting domain - War, for example, or maybe Trickery... Hmm... Magic might be a good one, too - lets you reroll that scroll or magic use chance when you blow the roll (using items higher than half your cleric class level). Sun domain would also be a fun combo to help make sure that once per day Greater Turning works on the lich! ("It sure was lucky I was able to vaporize him, eh guys?") This all presupposes there's a wide enough pantheon to let a cleric choose a wide enough variety of domains. If you're using the "book" (i.e., Greyhawk) gods and their domains, you're much more limited...
necrosnoop110 06-20-05, 05:10 PM	Cleric or Race won't work I need and item or spell. Thanks all, Necro
tiercel 06-20-05, 09:16 PM	The wishless luck blade is a really mighty item at higher levels. Sure, it's not cheap - but its ability becomes more powerful as it becomes more affordable. At high levels, the natural 1 becomes a significant cause of death, as no matter how high your saving throw modifier or bonuses are, the dreaded 1 will get you sooner or later. The luck blade is one of the few things than can stop it -- and if it saves you from having to be true resurrected even once, it has more than paid for itself. And that's if you never take it out of the sheath (it's slotless and doesn't even require you to wield it), even -- that it's also a +2 short sword, not to mention the +1 luck bonus on all saves, is just bonus. I think there's a good argument to be made that the item is underpriced. Personally, I wouldn't want to allow a 1k one-shot reroll item in my game. Everyone would have them. If they exist in your game, expect your BBEG to have them strapped all over his body. (Oh the bitter irony - not only does he stubbornly refuse to fall, but every time you launch what would be a deadly attack at him, you may destroy more of your prospective treasure.) I will note that the luck blade does more than just failed saves, though I'd assume you'd mostly be using it for that. An item which only worked on saving throws would be marginally cheaper, presumably. As for spells... well, Core, I'll note that wish will allow a reroll (or even force one, with a save, against someone else), but limited wish won't, so presumably any spell that would grant someone a reroll would be pretty high level. (Wish also requires you to spend a standard action after the fact to get the reroll; something like a luck blade takes effect with no action spent on your part.)
Patrick Draken-Korin 06-20-05, 10:08 PM	as tiercel said, the cost of a wishless luckblade includes the luck bonus to saves (worth about 2,000 Gp; an "other" save bonus), a +2 enhancement (worth 8,000 Gp), and the reroll ability is for ANY roll (not just saves; worth about 12,000 through reverse engineering, the second lowest form of item crafting*). reducing the reroll ability to only affect saves should make it (alone) worth 5,000 or 6,000 Gp (and i'd go with 6,000 Gp). restricting the ability to one save type (fort/ref/will) would probably be worth 2,000 Gp. then if you want multiple uses per day, i'd say take the base value of the ability (6,000 Gp for all saves, or 2,000 Gp for only one), and multiply it by the number of uses per day. or is that too cheap? off hand i can't remember any item/effect like this that grants multiple uses. on second thought multiply the base value by the number of uses per day SQUARED. *note: the lowest form of item creation is to not compare the new item's price to previously created items (preferable core items) and instead automatically use the rule in the back of the DMG. that's my 2 Cp. ignore it at will.