Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheMagister 08-29-05, 04:15 PM	Combatant is equipped with spiked gauntlets (primary hand), spiked light shield (off-hand, and a light weapon that is usable in a grapple, btw), and spiked armor. BAB is +3, and he possesses the TWF feat, the Imp. Shield bash feat, and Quickdraw What kind of damage options would this character have in a grapple? To my knowledge, they would be these: Attack with the spiked gauntlet at a -4 penalty. Deal 1d4 (spiked gauntlet) + 1d6 (spiked armor) + str. Attack with spiked light shield at a -4 penalty. Deal 1d4 (spiked light shield) + 1d6 (spiked armor) + 1/2 str (off-hand weapon). Make a successful grapple check. Deal 1d3 (normal unarmed damage) + 1d6 (spiked armor) + str. To my knowledge, you cannot make an attack with your off-hand weapon while in a grapple. To my knowledge, your armor spikes deal an "extra" 1d6 damage on top of your normal grapple damage, not 1d6 + str seperately from your normal attack. Tell me I'm right... TM
ShinAkuma2 08-29-05, 05:05 PM	There's no such thing as an "off-hand weapon" while grappling, since that really only applies to TWF. If anything, perhaps the -4 penalty for attacking in a grapple is because you have to use your main hand to hold him still? I dunno. The way I see it, you'd have to say which hand you're grappling with, since the hand with the shield can't have the spiked gauntlet. You could use the shield, or the gauntlet, but not both in the same grapple. I'm not sure if this is how it would be run RAW, but that's how I would do it, since switching weapons would involve switching hands, and that's not entirely feasible in a grapple. Other than that, it seems you've got everything under control.
Duration_10_Rounds 08-29-05, 05:29 PM	RAW states: You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons. So you could attack with either at any time but not both at once... as you need some purchase on your foe.
TheMagister 08-30-05, 10:18 AM	bump. more opinions please... TM
tarkin 08-30-05, 11:14 AM	Armor spikes are not some special thing that grants you an extra attack. They are a weapon that you are allowed to use in a grapple, that is it. So there is no way for you to attack with a spiked gauntlet, attack with a shield, and also attack with the armor spikes with a BAB of 5 or lower. (But if your BAB is say 11/6/1 then you could choose to spiked gauntlet 11, shield 6, armor spikes 1, if you felt like it).
Duration_10_Rounds 08-30-05, 11:34 AM	Armor spikes are not some special thing that grants you an extra attack. They are a weapon that you are allowed to use in a grapple... Oddly enough that is BOTH right and wrong :confused: ;) Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes’ effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right. If you deal damage by making an opposed grapple check: Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. If you deal damage by making an attack during a grapple: You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) Basicly when grappling you can attack 2 ways: 1) Make an opposed grapple check success deals unarmed damage + spikes. 2) Attack normaly at -4 success deals unarmed OR spikes. It is important to clarify this becuase of how feats and abilites work that grant aditional attacks. An aditional attack not given by the BAB can not be used to make grapple checks so with that aditional attack you have to choose to deal unarmed OR spike damage. Your BAB granted attacks can be used as opposed-grapple-attacks and will recieve unarmed+spike damage.
TheMagister 08-30-05, 03:41 PM	So what I had the wrong idea about is the spiked armor adding an extra 1d6 to ANY attack made while in a grapple (i.e. - with a successful grapple check to deal damage or with a melee attack at a -4 to deal damage with a light weapon). The extra damage from armor spikes only comes into play when you make a successful grapple check to deal damage to your opponent. The spikes are also a very effective light weapon to use in a grapple, dealing 1d6 damage. Thanks for the help. TM