Checking my play from the other night, making sure i did it right [Archive] - Wizards Community

Checking my play from the other night, making sure i did it right [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jere_RB
01-03-08, 07:54 PM Took a 1st level dark creature soulknife taking part in the howling horde module. He encountered a trio of elves holding a PC captive in a cage, poking him with spears and swords. Not nice.

So I decide to do something about it. It's night, no lights in the streets, and the elves don't have a light source. Hide in Plain Sight comes into play immediately.

I make my hide and move silently checks and sneak up behind the rear elf. I take a stab, hit. I then attempt another Hide check at -20 to remain hidden. I made the 1st check, made another the following round, and failed that one.

Here's my question: am I allowed to make a hide check (even at -20) penalty after I hit the guy, or am I automatically revealed to him? Furthermore, if I am exposed, am revealed just to him or to everyone else in line of sight (enemies, allies, etc)?

help would be appreciated.
Tema69
01-04-08, 12:06 PM Have a look at this thread. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=970368
Hope this helps ;)
mvincent
01-04-08, 12:33 PM am I allowed to make a hide check (even at -20) penalty after I hit the guy, or am I automatically revealed to him?It sounds like you are thinking of the sniping rules, which is for ranged attacks only.

For melee attacks, you would need cover or concealment along the entire path to your target to remain hidden (since it's dark, it sounds like you do), and you would need to make a -20 hide check before attacking:
"It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging."

After your attack, you can try to hide again (assuming you you still have concealment from the darkness) thanks to your hide in plain sight ability... although you'll still be adjacent to your target (unless you have spring attack).

Complete details can be found in the 3.5 FAQ.

Furthermore, if I am exposed, am revealed just to him or to everyone else in line of sight (enemies, allies, etc)?Everyone.
Tedronai
01-04-08, 03:16 PM *sigh*

You are visible to anyone who's spot check exceeds your hide check. You are not visible to anyone else, though they may then be alerted to your presence by those that did see you. If you neglect to make a hide check, then you are assumed to be relatively easily visible to anyone in the area.

The hide check with a -20 penalty is if you're making the attempt DURING your attack. You can also make a hide attempt AFTER the attack, thanks to your wonderful little ability, that will not suffer that penalty.
mplindustries
01-04-08, 07:14 PM Everyone so far has given the right advice. Just to clarify and combine what everyone has been saying:

You could make a hide check at -20 to never get revealed at all (which is what the sniping rules are assuming you are trying to do). Alternatively, you could simply allow the attack to reveal yourself and then use a move action to hide again with no penalty since you can do so in plain sight. And yes, it would reveal you to anyone nearby who could conceivably see you. Theoretically, if someone is flatfooted, as would be the case for such a surprise attack, it could be ruled that they can not "conceivably see you," though.
Jere_RB
01-04-08, 07:43 PM Alright, let me make sure i got this:

Make my hide check, no penalty, move up. Attempt a -20 Hide check to remain hidden while I attack. Pass or fail, I take the shot, then attempt another Hide check.

Brings up another question: what kind of action do I have to take after my attack to attempt another hide check? Do I have to spend a move, standard, swift? Or is it a free action?

*1st time playing a sneaky-type character, apologies for the noobness*
mplindustries
01-04-08, 09:09 PM Making a hide check is a move action, so you can't make both checks while attacking.

You either roll the -20 check to never be revealed in the first place, or you roll the unpenalized check after you attack and are revealed.
Jere_RB
01-04-08, 09:47 PM Alright. If I have HiPS, move in, hit, take a move and make the check.

If I *don't* have HiPS, move in, *attempt* the -20 to Hide while attacking. If I fail, I'm being observed anyway, so no hide check.

Cool beans. You know, I think I'm going to like being the sneaky guy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jere_RB 01-03-08, 07:54 PM	Took a 1st level dark creature soulknife taking part in the howling horde module. He encountered a trio of elves holding a PC captive in a cage, poking him with spears and swords. Not nice. So I decide to do something about it. It's night, no lights in the streets, and the elves don't have a light source. Hide in Plain Sight comes into play immediately. I make my hide and move silently checks and sneak up behind the rear elf. I take a stab, hit. I then attempt another Hide check at -20 to remain hidden. I made the 1st check, made another the following round, and failed that one. Here's my question: am I allowed to make a hide check (even at -20) penalty after I hit the guy, or am I automatically revealed to him? Furthermore, if I am exposed, am revealed just to him or to everyone else in line of sight (enemies, allies, etc)? help would be appreciated.
Tema69 01-04-08, 12:06 PM	Have a look at this thread. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=970368 Hope this helps ;)
mvincent 01-04-08, 12:33 PM	am I allowed to make a hide check (even at -20) penalty after I hit the guy, or am I automatically revealed to him?It sounds like you are thinking of the sniping rules, which is for ranged attacks only. For melee attacks, you would need cover or concealment along the entire path to your target to remain hidden (since it's dark, it sounds like you do), and you would need to make a -20 hide check before attacking: "It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging." After your attack, you can try to hide again (assuming you you still have concealment from the darkness) thanks to your hide in plain sight ability... although you'll still be adjacent to your target (unless you have spring attack). Complete details can be found in the 3.5 FAQ. Furthermore, if I am exposed, am revealed just to him or to everyone else in line of sight (enemies, allies, etc)?Everyone.
Tedronai 01-04-08, 03:16 PM	sigh You are visible to anyone who's spot check exceeds your hide check. You are not visible to anyone else, though they may then be alerted to your presence by those that did see you. If you neglect to make a hide check, then you are assumed to be relatively easily visible to anyone in the area. The hide check with a -20 penalty is if you're making the attempt DURING your attack. You can also make a hide attempt AFTER the attack, thanks to your wonderful little ability, that will not suffer that penalty.
mplindustries 01-04-08, 07:14 PM	Everyone so far has given the right advice. Just to clarify and combine what everyone has been saying: You could make a hide check at -20 to never get revealed at all (which is what the sniping rules are assuming you are trying to do). Alternatively, you could simply allow the attack to reveal yourself and then use a move action to hide again with no penalty since you can do so in plain sight. And yes, it would reveal you to anyone nearby who could conceivably see you. Theoretically, if someone is flatfooted, as would be the case for such a surprise attack, it could be ruled that they can not "conceivably see you," though.
Jere_RB 01-04-08, 07:43 PM	Alright, let me make sure i got this: Make my hide check, no penalty, move up. Attempt a -20 Hide check to remain hidden while I attack. Pass or fail, I take the shot, then attempt another Hide check. Brings up another question: what kind of action do I have to take after my attack to attempt another hide check? Do I have to spend a move, standard, swift? Or is it a free action? 1st time playing a sneaky-type character, apologies for the noobness
mplindustries 01-04-08, 09:09 PM	Making a hide check is a move action, so you can't make both checks while attacking. You either roll the -20 check to never be revealed in the first place, or you roll the unpenalized check after you attack and are revealed.
Jere_RB 01-04-08, 09:47 PM	Alright. If I have HiPS, move in, hit, take a move and make the check. If I don't have HiPS, move in, attempt the -20 to Hide while attacking. If I fail, I'm being observed anyway, so no hide check. Cool beans. You know, I think I'm going to like being the sneaky guy.