Clarify Bull Rush and Knockback. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clarify Bull Rush and Knockback. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bfiggins
10-24-07, 02:21 AM I'm interested if there are any clarifications on the Bull Rush action.
You enter the opponent's square, and if you choose to (and roll high), you move with them. Do you move back into an unoccupied square after the movement is completed?
What happens normally if you bull rush someone into another creature? Do they fall down, does the movement stop, is there a check for it? Considered an Overrun? What if you bull rush them into an obstacle that's half their height?

Knockback. Do you need to move into the opponent's space? It says it doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity - does that mean that just the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, or that the enemy's movement doesn't provoke? (If the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, that seems redundant, since Improved Bull Rush is a prerequisite.) Can you still knock the enemy back 10, 15, 20 feet, even though you don't move with them?
Greco
10-24-07, 04:20 AM You enter the opponent's square, and if you choose to (and roll high), you move with them. Do you move back into an unoccupied square after the movement is completed? Since you moved the oppnent back 5ft you take the targets square. It doesn't matter how far you move with target the target still gets moved one square back.

What happens normally if you bull rush someone into another creature? Do they fall down, does the movement stop, is there a check for it? Yes, Yes, No. If You have the feat Shock Trooper you would get a free trip attempt against both.

Considered an Overrun? NO
What if you bull rush them into an obstacle that's half their height? It would depend on the type of obstacle

Knockback. Do you need to move into the opponent's space? It says it doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity - does that mean that just the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, or that the enemy's movement doesn't provoke?

I doesn't Provoke an AoO from the opponent you hit with a power attack.

(If the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, that seems redundant, since Improved Bull Rush is a prerequisite.) Can you still knock the enemy back 10, 15, 20 feet, even though you don't move with them?

Um yeah reread the entire feat from the Race of Stone page 142.
bfiggins
10-24-07, 12:57 PM What happens normally if you bull rush someone into another creature? Do they fall down, does the movement stop, is there a check for it? Yes, Yes, No. If You have the feat Shock Trooper you would get a free trip attempt against both.

Can you give me a source where it says that one or both creatures falls prone without a check? That's a very powerful application of knockback!

It would depend on the type of obstacle
Let's say a stone column two feet high. Enough that it would require a 'jump up' check. Would they hit it (doing damage with Dungeoncrasher), or just stop, or fall prone on top of it...etc?

Um yeah reread the entire feat from the Race of Stone page 142.[/QUOTE]

You're a big help. :rolleyes: Fine, let's read!
'Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts do not provoke attacks of opportunity.' As I mentioned, this is redundant, because Improved Bull Rush is a prerequisite for Knockback. Do you think it's just here to re-emphasize that?

'You don't move with the enemy you knock backward.' In a standard bull rush, you aren't required to move with the enemy if you only want to push him back 5 feet. So you could interpret this as either 'You can only knockback 5 feet, since you are unable to follow,' or 'You can knockback any distance, ignoring the normal following requirement.'

And one more thing. If the opponent's movement provokes an AoO, is there the 25% chance that any AoO made against the enemy will hit you instead? Seems silly if you're knocking them across the room, but it seems to be RAW, if not RAI.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bfiggins 10-24-07, 02:21 AM	I'm interested if there are any clarifications on the Bull Rush action. You enter the opponent's square, and if you choose to (and roll high), you move with them. Do you move back into an unoccupied square after the movement is completed? What happens normally if you bull rush someone into another creature? Do they fall down, does the movement stop, is there a check for it? Considered an Overrun? What if you bull rush them into an obstacle that's half their height? Knockback. Do you need to move into the opponent's space? It says it doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity - does that mean that just the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, or that the enemy's movement doesn't provoke? (If the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, that seems redundant, since Improved Bull Rush is a prerequisite.) Can you still knock the enemy back 10, 15, 20 feet, even though you don't move with them?
Greco 10-24-07, 04:20 AM	You enter the opponent's square, and if you choose to (and roll high), you move with them. Do you move back into an unoccupied square after the movement is completed? Since you moved the oppnent back 5ft you take the targets square. It doesn't matter how far you move with target the target still gets moved one square back. What happens normally if you bull rush someone into another creature? Do they fall down, does the movement stop, is there a check for it? Yes, Yes, No. If You have the feat Shock Trooper you would get a free trip attempt against both. Considered an Overrun? NO What if you bull rush them into an obstacle that's half their height? It would depend on the type of obstacle Knockback. Do you need to move into the opponent's space? It says it doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity - does that mean that just the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, or that the enemy's movement doesn't provoke? I doesn't Provoke an AoO from the opponent you hit with a power attack. (If the bull rush attempt doesn't provoke, that seems redundant, since Improved Bull Rush is a prerequisite.) Can you still knock the enemy back 10, 15, 20 feet, even though you don't move with them? Um yeah reread the entire feat from the Race of Stone page 142.
bfiggins 10-24-07, 12:57 PM	What happens normally if you bull rush someone into another creature? Do they fall down, does the movement stop, is there a check for it? Yes, Yes, No. If You have the feat Shock Trooper you would get a free trip attempt against both. Can you give me a source where it says that one or both creatures falls prone without a check? That's a very powerful application of knockback! It would depend on the type of obstacle Let's say a stone column two feet high. Enough that it would require a 'jump up' check. Would they hit it (doing damage with Dungeoncrasher), or just stop, or fall prone on top of it...etc? Um yeah reread the entire feat from the Race of Stone page 142.[/QUOTE] You're a big help. :rolleyes: Fine, let's read! 'Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts do not provoke attacks of opportunity.' As I mentioned, this is redundant, because Improved Bull Rush is a prerequisite for Knockback. Do you think it's just here to re-emphasize that? 'You don't move with the enemy you knock backward.' In a standard bull rush, you aren't required to move with the enemy if you only want to push him back 5 feet. So you could interpret this as either 'You can only knockback 5 feet, since you are unable to follow,' or 'You can knockback any distance, ignoring the normal following requirement.' And one more thing. If the opponent's movement provokes an AoO, is there the 25% chance that any AoO made against the enemy will hit you instead? Seems silly if you're knocking them across the room, but it seems to be RAW, if not RAI.