Claw attacks and armored spead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Claw attacks and armored spead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Calmar
09-13-07, 07:49 AM Hi.
Can a monster, like a kir-lanan, who has two claw attacks use its full base attack bonus in a full round attack, or is it just allowed to attack once with each claw?

For example:
2 claws +12 (1d4+5 plus negative energy touch)
or
2 claws +12/+7 (1d4+5 plus negative energy touch) :(

Edit: If using Two-Weapon Fighting, can I get one or two additional attacks (all with -2, of course)?

And where can I find table for slowing effect of armor for creatures faster than 30 ft.?

Thanks. :)
Naderion
09-13-07, 09:17 AM Somewhere it says, that you can use all natural weapons once, when you make a full attack, but each natural weapon only once.

If you have 5 natural weapons, you can make 6 attacks as a full attack. If you only have one, you can still make only one attack, even as a full action.
Aubri
09-13-07, 09:27 AM Both claws attack at the full normal BAB if they're the primary weapon.

As for getting slowed down by armor, there's a slightly extended table under Barding in the DMG. Here's the SRD link:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#bardingMediumCreatu reandLargeCreature

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be much of a formula -- it varies between 2/3 and 3/4 the base speed.
Calmar
09-13-07, 01:48 PM Thank you very much for your replies. :)

So, this would not work, right?
2 claws +11 (1d6+5) and claw +9 (1d6+2) with Two-Weapon Fighting
ToastedAmphibian
09-13-07, 05:11 PM Thank you very much for your replies. :)

So, this would not work, right?
2 claws +11 (1d6+5) and claw +9 (1d6+2) with Two-Weapon Fighting

No, that wouldnt work. Put a sword in one claw though, then you have sword +11 sword +6 sword +1 claw +4 (+7 if you have multiattack)
Aubri
09-13-07, 11:08 PM Thank you very much for your replies. :)

So, this would not work, right?
2 claws +11 (1d6+5) and claw +9 (1d6+2) with Two-Weapon Fighting

That's correct. A natural weapon can strike only once a round, no matter what.
Calmar
09-14-07, 04:25 AM Ok. Thanks. :)
Watchman
09-14-07, 07:20 AM Monks are going to be pretty forlorn if you tell tham that... ;)
Aubri
09-14-07, 08:59 AM Monks are going to be pretty forlorn if you tell tham that... ;)

Heh! Oddly enough, though they count as a natural weapon for the purposes of Magic Fang et al, Unarmed Strikes are explicitly not natural attacks -- they're what happens when you don't HAVE any natural weapons.

"Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity."
Calmar
09-14-07, 08:13 PM Fortunately monks are allowed to take the Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) feat, at least. :P
Watchman
09-15-07, 06:59 AM Anyone else find the logic involved a wee bit inconsistent ?
Calmar
09-15-07, 08:55 AM Yeah, it is a bit wierd. PHB II says it works, I probably never would have had the idea myself. ;)

I realize the grammar in the last sentence may be flawed...
tarkin
09-15-07, 01:01 PM Anyone else find the logic involved a wee bit inconsistent ?

Natural attacks are considered weapons. I.E. a claw is a weapon.

The way they have it set up, each additional attack you get is like getting a different weapon. I.E. it is like taking TWF style.

Each weapon comes with an inate ability to be used ONCE. I.E. each natural weapon comes with a feat like TWF feat

The fact that you have 30 weapons on you, does not let someone with a BAB of 6/1 get to make 60 attacks.

Unarmed strikes/flurry however, is not adding a new weapon. It is just using training to make an unarmed attack better.

There ARE however feats, called Rapid Strike, wich DO increase the number of attacks you can make with natural weapons.

You want the power? Pay for it by taking the required feats.
Neutronium_Dragon
09-15-07, 01:10 PM The reason that it works for monks is that a monk's unarmed strikes are treated as natural weapons when it's advantageous for them to be so. They don't suffer from the downsides in the process.
BW0222
09-15-07, 01:13 PM Calmar,

Natural weapons are either primary or secondary (as listed in the monster's description). Primary natural weapon attack are at full BAB (plus strength, size, etc.) no matter how many you have. A squid gets a lot of tentical attacks all at full BAB. Secondary weapon attacks are at -5 (or -2 if you have the multi-attack feat).

The number of natural weapon attack depends solely on the creature description and is not affected by BAB. A dire tiger has a high BAB but still only gets the same claw/claw/bite as a normal tiger.

MM p312 has the rules on natural weapon attacks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Calmar 09-13-07, 07:49 AM	Hi. Can a monster, like a kir-lanan, who has two claw attacks use its full base attack bonus in a full round attack, or is it just allowed to attack once with each claw? For example: 2 claws +12 (1d4+5 plus negative energy touch) or 2 claws +12/+7 (1d4+5 plus negative energy touch) :( Edit: If using Two-Weapon Fighting, can I get one or two additional attacks (all with -2, of course)? And where can I find table for slowing effect of armor for creatures faster than 30 ft.? Thanks. :)
Naderion 09-13-07, 09:17 AM	Somewhere it says, that you can use all natural weapons once, when you make a full attack, but each natural weapon only once. If you have 5 natural weapons, you can make 6 attacks as a full attack. If you only have one, you can still make only one attack, even as a full action.
Aubri 09-13-07, 09:27 AM	Both claws attack at the full normal BAB if they're the primary weapon. As for getting slowed down by armor, there's a slightly extended table under Barding in the DMG. Here's the SRD link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#bardingMediumCreatu reandLargeCreature Sadly, there doesn't seem to be much of a formula -- it varies between 2/3 and 3/4 the base speed.
Calmar 09-13-07, 01:48 PM	Thank you very much for your replies. :) So, this would not work, right? 2 claws +11 (1d6+5) and claw +9 (1d6+2) with Two-Weapon Fighting
ToastedAmphibian 09-13-07, 05:11 PM	Thank you very much for your replies. :) So, this would not work, right? 2 claws +11 (1d6+5) and claw +9 (1d6+2) with Two-Weapon Fighting No, that wouldnt work. Put a sword in one claw though, then you have sword +11 sword +6 sword +1 claw +4 (+7 if you have multiattack)
Aubri 09-13-07, 11:08 PM	Thank you very much for your replies. :) So, this would not work, right? 2 claws +11 (1d6+5) and claw +9 (1d6+2) with Two-Weapon Fighting That's correct. A natural weapon can strike only once a round, no matter what.
Calmar 09-14-07, 04:25 AM	Ok. Thanks. :)
Watchman 09-14-07, 07:20 AM	Monks are going to be pretty forlorn if you tell tham that... ;)
Aubri 09-14-07, 08:59 AM	Monks are going to be pretty forlorn if you tell tham that... ;) Heh! Oddly enough, though they count as a natural weapon for the purposes of Magic Fang et al, Unarmed Strikes are explicitly not natural attacks -- they're what happens when you don't HAVE any natural weapons. "Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity."
Calmar 09-14-07, 08:13 PM	Fortunately monks are allowed to take the Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) feat, at least. :P
Watchman 09-15-07, 06:59 AM	Anyone else find the logic involved a wee bit inconsistent ?
Calmar 09-15-07, 08:55 AM	Yeah, it is a bit wierd. PHB II says it works, I probably never would have had the idea myself. ;) I realize the grammar in the last sentence may be flawed...
tarkin 09-15-07, 01:01 PM	Anyone else find the logic involved a wee bit inconsistent ? Natural attacks are considered weapons. I.E. a claw is a weapon. The way they have it set up, each additional attack you get is like getting a different weapon. I.E. it is like taking TWF style. Each weapon comes with an inate ability to be used ONCE. I.E. each natural weapon comes with a feat like TWF feat The fact that you have 30 weapons on you, does not let someone with a BAB of 6/1 get to make 60 attacks. Unarmed strikes/flurry however, is not adding a new weapon. It is just using training to make an unarmed attack better. There ARE however feats, called Rapid Strike, wich DO increase the number of attacks you can make with natural weapons. You want the power? Pay for it by taking the required feats.
Neutronium_Dragon 09-15-07, 01:10 PM	The reason that it works for monks is that a monk's unarmed strikes are treated as natural weapons when it's advantageous for them to be so. They don't suffer from the downsides in the process.
BW0222 09-15-07, 01:13 PM	Calmar, Natural weapons are either primary or secondary (as listed in the monster's description). Primary natural weapon attack are at full BAB (plus strength, size, etc.) no matter how many you have. A squid gets a lot of tentical attacks all at full BAB. Secondary weapon attacks are at -5 (or -2 if you have the multi-attack feat). The number of natural weapon attack depends solely on the creature description and is not affected by BAB. A dire tiger has a high BAB but still only gets the same claw/claw/bite as a normal tiger. MM p312 has the rules on natural weapon attacks.