Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suzaku455 04-19-06, 09:17 PM	Does having claws effect your unarm strike, one can argue that someone can strike with their palam and claw at the same time. I was wondering if there was any raw on this subject. My DM ruled that he will allow a +2 damage.
waverlyt 04-19-06, 10:21 PM	Unarmed strikes don't only come from your hands - it includes knees, elbows, headbutts, etc. On the other hand, I would agree that you could strike with your hand and not strike with your claws (especially if you have retractable claws...).
Nom 04-19-06, 10:23 PM	No. They are different attack forms. There have, however, been rulings that you may make a primary unarmed strike attack and secondary attacks with your claws. Whether the unarmed strike attack prevents using claws on the same limb (as per manufactured and natural weapons) isn't really well defined.
Arkan_Shadesfire 04-19-06, 10:32 PM	There have been a bazillion threads involving this, and so far I've yet to see anybody reach a definitive answer. The problem is that the game designers really didn't take clawed characters into account when they designed the monk class. In fact, I kind of have a problem with the whole monk damage system, because a high level monk basically gets penalized for using a weapon by not being able to do their increased damage with anything but an unarmed strike. Going by the RAW, I'd have to say you either use the claw damage or your unarmed damage--but it makes sense that a clawed monk would do more damage with an unarmed strike. (tiger claw style, anyone?) I can see it breaking down one of two ways: A) The standard monk training doesn't cover how to use claws effectively, so a clawed monk can't actually incorporate a claw attack into their unarmed strikes and thus much chose ether claw damage or unarmed. B) The clawed monk was trained by a special order of monks specific to his race, who adapted the monk's unarmed fighting style to incorporate their race's natural weapons. In this case, you'd need to make some changes to the standard monk class in order to make it fit--perhaps by coming up with an "unarmed damage bonus" that stacks with natural weapon damage instead of having a set damage for unarmed strikes.
aotrscommander 04-20-06, 05:37 PM	A) The standard monk training doesn't cover how to use claws effectively, so a clawed monk can't actually incorporate a claw attack into their unarmed strikes and thus much chose ether claw damage or unarmed. B) The clawed monk was trained by a special order of monks specific to his race, who adapted the monk's unarmed fighting style to incorporate their race's natural weapons. In this case, you'd need to make some changes to the standard monk class in order to make it fit--perhaps by coming up with an "unarmed damage bonus" that stacks with natural weapon damage instead of having a set damage for unarmed strikes. Or alternate to B unarmed damage bonus, instead allow natural weapon attacks to be substitued into your flurry like monk special weapons (which they can't normally). Personally, as a DM, I'd stick with option A. Given as you can make natural attacks in addition to your normal unarmed strikes (and flurry of blows), I would say that it would have no effect on your unarmed damage (since your unarmed attacks can and will come from many parts of your body that are NOT claws). I might allow a PC who came up with a *very* good reason to swap in natural weapons as above.
Bulletproof_Condom 04-20-06, 06:46 PM	Claws and unarmed strikes are mechanically defined as two separate weapons. Good news is you can take Multiattack and flurry with unarmed strikes and make secondary claw attacks.
babysamurai 04-21-06, 06:04 AM	Good news is you can take Multiattack and flurry with unarmed strikes and make secondary claw attacks. True, but even without Multiattack you can make claw/bite/tentacle/tail etc attacks as secondary natural attacks in addition to unarmed strikes/flurry.
Bulletproof_Condom 04-21-06, 08:24 AM	I know, but that effective +3 to those attacks is so money.
babysamurai 04-21-06, 08:32 AM	I know, but that effective +3 to those attacks is so money. Totally. And of course slap on some TWF (unarmed strikes) and it gets revoltingly lovely.
aotrscommander 04-21-06, 08:53 AM	And of course slap on some TWF (unarmed strikes) and it gets revoltingly lovely. Oh yes. So really, you don't need additional damage on your unarmed strikes. What would you rather have, slightly more damage on your attacks, or MORE attacks that don't even affect your primaries?
babysamurai 04-21-06, 09:05 AM	Oh yes. So really, you don't need additional damage on your unarmed strikes. What would you rather have, slightly more damage on your attacks, or MORE attacks that don't even affect your primaries? Absolutely! How goes it in Derby? Myself living in London (...yay) for the past 5 years.
aotrscommander 04-21-06, 09:16 AM	How goes it in Derby? Myself living in London (...yay) for the past 5 years. Wet.