Claymore = Greatsword (confirmation) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Claymore = Greatsword (confirmation) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Master_Vega
12-17-07, 10:12 PM Okay, so for stats a Claymore would be a Greatsword, right? Or are there stats specifically for a claymore in one of the supplements?
Waterhammer
12-17-07, 11:10 PM Not sure what any of the supplements say on the matter, but I consider the claymore to be a bastard sword usually.

It should be noted that Rob Roy called his broadsword a claymore. In D&D a broadsword would class as a longsword. Except by those that consider them to be great, or bastard swords, of course.
In braveheart, William Wallace, no doubt, called his two-hander a claymore.
Kouk
12-17-07, 11:12 PM Names hardly mean much of anything, but if you want solid references in a D&D book, the Arms and Equipment Guide lists Claymore as an alternate name for the Greatsword, yes.
Master_Vega
12-17-07, 11:18 PM Waterhammer -- Yeah, I was thinking William Wallace two-hander style claymore. :P

Kouk -- If figured it was resolved somewhere. Thanks!

Well, with that answered: cutlass = short sword that slashes instead of stabs (as far as the game goes) or are there rules regarding this as well?
What about the sabre?

Thanks again!
Kouk
12-17-07, 11:41 PM Waterhammer -- Yeah, I was thinking William Wallace two-hander style claymore. :P

Kouk -- If figured it was resolved somewhere. Thanks!

Well, with that answered: cutlass = short sword that slashes instead of stabs (as far as the game goes) or are there rules regarding this as well?
What about the sabre?

Thanks again!

Well, for Cutlass and Saber there are a couple of differences depending on what book you use.

The Arms and Equipment Guide lists both Cutlass and Saber as alternate names for the standard Scimitar.

The book Stormwrack lists the Cutlass as a separate Light Martial weapon, with stats equivalent to a Short Sword which does Slashing damage, weighs one pound more and costs 5gp more. It also gives you a +2 bonus against being Disarmed.

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book lists a Cutlass as a Small Martial melee weapon ("light" in 3.5 parlance) with the same stats as the Stormwrack version, but it does both Slashing and Piercing damage at the same time.

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book describes the Saber as basically a Martial "Longsword" which also does Piercing damage, and gives a +1 bonus while you are riding a mount.

Both the Arms and Equipment Guide and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book are for rules version 3.0, so theoretically the Stormwrack Cutlass is "most official".
Master_Vega
12-18-07, 12:12 AM Ahh, alright. Thanks for the help!

I wanted to know if there were any existing versions before I went and houseruled my own. :P
Kouk
12-18-07, 12:22 AM Sure, no problem. Glad to help.
katarl
12-18-07, 03:22 PM Gah! No more weapon variants, a claymore really is just a slightly thicker greatsword! You wouldn't house rule a zweihander as something other than a greatsword would you?
Naderion
12-18-07, 03:34 PM But Zweihänder really were a good deal bigger than most "two handed swords".

The old "Longsword" was a two handed sword of about 120 cm length and 1,4 kg, claymores were usually about 140 cm and 2 kg. The german Zweihänder were about 180 cm and up to 3 kg and more.

When you look at the pictures, what is called a Greatsword in D&D is most likely about the size of a claymore or longsword. Real Zweihänder would be represented by those Fullblades or what they are called.
RobbyPants
12-18-07, 03:54 PM But Zweihänder really were a good deal bigger than most "two handed swords".
It just goes to show you how much is in a name, considering that Zweihander litterally means "two hander".

Back in 2E, espescially in Combat & Tactics there were lots of weapons, with little distinctions like these. It seems the tendancy of 3.x is to lump many similar weapons together, which is fine by me. Mechanically, I'd call a Zweihander a greatsword. I can see an argument for calling a claymore a bastard sword, but I'd be just as fine with greatsword.

Flavor wise, I think it's cool to call them by other names, assuming that makes sense in the campaign world.
Tony Vargas
12-18-07, 05:12 PM The usage of claymore has changed over time, from a large two-handed sword very much like the D&D greatsword, to a clamshell-guard sword noticeably heavier than the rapier. So you could take a long, bastard, or greatsword, and call it a 'claymore.'
Kouk
12-19-07, 01:27 AM The usage of claymore has changed over time, from a large two-handed sword very much like the D&D greatsword, to a clamshell-guard sword noticeably heavier than the rapier. So you could take a long, bastard, or greatsword, and call it a 'claymore.'

Or even a mine :D
Roelandt
12-19-07, 05:20 PM Scottish Claymoores are similar in most respects to the greatsword except that the hilt tends to be a bit smaller (the classic greatsword has a 1 foot hilt), and the absense of the unsharpened portion of the blade near the hilt (used by the greatsword user to hold the sword "upsided down" in the off-hand (like holding a giant cross) for defensive use similar to a shield as he fights with another weapon in the primary hand). This secondary usage of the greatsword is missing from the D&D rules.
dengarbountyhunter
12-29-07, 10:26 AM The basket-hilted one-handed sword is really called a Claidheamh béag (not sure at all about the spelling, I don't speak a bit of Gaelic) while "claymore" is a corruption of Claidheamh mòr. At least, that's if the historians at the musuem I work at are right about the sword I wear everyday for my summer job :cool:.

Edit: Ah, it seems that since Claidheamh béag is more or less "small/short sword", it can designate anything from a dirk to a broadsword... well at least it's more accurate than Claidheamh mòr (great sword).
Cold Napalm
12-29-07, 02:03 PM basically because of tranlational issues claymore refers oddly enough to jut about any scottish blade. Their short sword, their basket hilt broadsword, their batard sword, their greatsword. Go early english historians. But basically the william wallace would be a greatsword.
Prime32
12-29-07, 03:16 PM The basket-hilted one-handed sword is really called a Claidheamh béag (not sure at all about the spelling, I don't speak a bit of Gaelic) while "claymore" is a corruption of Claidheamh mòr. At least, that's if the historians at the musuem I work at are right about the sword I wear everyday for my summer job :cool:.

Edit: Ah, it seems that since Claidheamh béag is more or less "small/short sword", it can designate anything from a dirk to a broadsword... well at least it's more accurate than Claidheamh mòr (great sword).

I'm Irish, I can help out.

Claíomh (pronounced *clee*-uvv) is Irish for sword. Beag (pronounced byug) means small, while mór (moor) means large. Claymore is a corruptionof "claíomh mór", meaning big sword, or great sword, if you will. The name is probably derived from Scottish rather than Irish, but there's little difference.
dengarbountyhunter
12-29-07, 08:30 PM Thanks, I actually hoped that someone who spoke Gaelic would come up! Forgive my poor spelling...
Prime32
12-30-07, 01:33 PM Nah, Old Irish used spellings like that, but nowadays sidhe is spelled sí, etc.
Waterhammer
12-30-07, 03:28 PM Nah, Old Irish used spellings like that, but nowadays sidhe is spelled sí, etc.

Really?

I don't think I will be adopting the modern way, then. Simply because si already means yes, in Spanish.
Prime32
12-30-07, 05:09 PM It also means "she" in Irish :confused: (it's pronounced she too)

(bean sí)
mvincent
01-02-08, 02:45 PM The d20 Modern SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd) description for Greatsword (under Arcana Equipment) reads:
"Greatsword
This huge sword, including the Scottish claymore, can deal tremendous damage in the right hands."
Prime32
01-02-08, 04:40 PM I want to point out, while I'm at it, that unlike most languages, putting a line above a vowel in Irish turns it into a different letter.

á (aw)
é (ay)
í (ee)
ó (oh)
ú (oo)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Master_Vega 12-17-07, 10:12 PM	Okay, so for stats a Claymore would be a Greatsword, right? Or are there stats specifically for a claymore in one of the supplements?
Waterhammer 12-17-07, 11:10 PM	Not sure what any of the supplements say on the matter, but I consider the claymore to be a bastard sword usually. It should be noted that Rob Roy called his broadsword a claymore. In D&D a broadsword would class as a longsword. Except by those that consider them to be great, or bastard swords, of course. In braveheart, William Wallace, no doubt, called his two-hander a claymore.
Kouk 12-17-07, 11:12 PM	Names hardly mean much of anything, but if you want solid references in a D&D book, the Arms and Equipment Guide lists Claymore as an alternate name for the Greatsword, yes.
Master_Vega 12-17-07, 11:18 PM	Waterhammer -- Yeah, I was thinking William Wallace two-hander style claymore. :P Kouk -- If figured it was resolved somewhere. Thanks! Well, with that answered: cutlass = short sword that slashes instead of stabs (as far as the game goes) or are there rules regarding this as well? What about the sabre? Thanks again!
Kouk 12-17-07, 11:41 PM	Waterhammer -- Yeah, I was thinking William Wallace two-hander style claymore. :P Kouk -- If figured it was resolved somewhere. Thanks! Well, with that answered: cutlass = short sword that slashes instead of stabs (as far as the game goes) or are there rules regarding this as well? What about the sabre? Thanks again! Well, for Cutlass and Saber there are a couple of differences depending on what book you use. The Arms and Equipment Guide lists both Cutlass and Saber as alternate names for the standard Scimitar. The book Stormwrack lists the Cutlass as a separate Light Martial weapon, with stats equivalent to a Short Sword which does Slashing damage, weighs one pound more and costs 5gp more. It also gives you a +2 bonus against being Disarmed. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book lists a Cutlass as a Small Martial melee weapon ("light" in 3.5 parlance) with the same stats as the Stormwrack version, but it does both Slashing and Piercing damage at the same time. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book describes the Saber as basically a Martial "Longsword" which also does Piercing damage, and gives a +1 bonus while you are riding a mount. Both the Arms and Equipment Guide and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book are for rules version 3.0, so theoretically the Stormwrack Cutlass is "most official".
Master_Vega 12-18-07, 12:12 AM	Ahh, alright. Thanks for the help! I wanted to know if there were any existing versions before I went and houseruled my own. :P
Kouk 12-18-07, 12:22 AM	Sure, no problem. Glad to help.
katarl 12-18-07, 03:22 PM	Gah! No more weapon variants, a claymore really is just a slightly thicker greatsword! You wouldn't house rule a zweihander as something other than a greatsword would you?
Naderion 12-18-07, 03:34 PM	But Zweihänder really were a good deal bigger than most "two handed swords". The old "Longsword" was a two handed sword of about 120 cm length and 1,4 kg, claymores were usually about 140 cm and 2 kg. The german Zweihänder were about 180 cm and up to 3 kg and more. When you look at the pictures, what is called a Greatsword in D&D is most likely about the size of a claymore or longsword. Real Zweihänder would be represented by those Fullblades or what they are called.
RobbyPants 12-18-07, 03:54 PM	But Zweihänder really were a good deal bigger than most "two handed swords". It just goes to show you how much is in a name, considering that Zweihander litterally means "two hander". Back in 2E, espescially in Combat & Tactics there were lots of weapons, with little distinctions like these. It seems the tendancy of 3.x is to lump many similar weapons together, which is fine by me. Mechanically, I'd call a Zweihander a greatsword. I can see an argument for calling a claymore a bastard sword, but I'd be just as fine with greatsword. Flavor wise, I think it's cool to call them by other names, assuming that makes sense in the campaign world.
Tony Vargas 12-18-07, 05:12 PM	The usage of claymore has changed over time, from a large two-handed sword very much like the D&D greatsword, to a clamshell-guard sword noticeably heavier than the rapier. So you could take a long, bastard, or greatsword, and call it a 'claymore.'
Kouk 12-19-07, 01:27 AM	The usage of claymore has changed over time, from a large two-handed sword very much like the D&D greatsword, to a clamshell-guard sword noticeably heavier than the rapier. So you could take a long, bastard, or greatsword, and call it a 'claymore.' Or even a mine :D
Roelandt 12-19-07, 05:20 PM	Scottish Claymoores are similar in most respects to the greatsword except that the hilt tends to be a bit smaller (the classic greatsword has a 1 foot hilt), and the absense of the unsharpened portion of the blade near the hilt (used by the greatsword user to hold the sword "upsided down" in the off-hand (like holding a giant cross) for defensive use similar to a shield as he fights with another weapon in the primary hand). This secondary usage of the greatsword is missing from the D&D rules.
dengarbountyhunter 12-29-07, 10:26 AM	The basket-hilted one-handed sword is really called a Claidheamh béag (not sure at all about the spelling, I don't speak a bit of Gaelic) while "claymore" is a corruption of Claidheamh mòr. At least, that's if the historians at the musuem I work at are right about the sword I wear everyday for my summer job :cool:. Edit: Ah, it seems that since Claidheamh béag is more or less "small/short sword", it can designate anything from a dirk to a broadsword... well at least it's more accurate than Claidheamh mòr (great sword).
Cold Napalm 12-29-07, 02:03 PM	basically because of tranlational issues claymore refers oddly enough to jut about any scottish blade. Their short sword, their basket hilt broadsword, their batard sword, their greatsword. Go early english historians. But basically the william wallace would be a greatsword.
Prime32 12-29-07, 03:16 PM	The basket-hilted one-handed sword is really called a Claidheamh béag (not sure at all about the spelling, I don't speak a bit of Gaelic) while "claymore" is a corruption of Claidheamh mòr. At least, that's if the historians at the musuem I work at are right about the sword I wear everyday for my summer job :cool:. Edit: Ah, it seems that since Claidheamh béag is more or less "small/short sword", it can designate anything from a dirk to a broadsword... well at least it's more accurate than Claidheamh mòr (great sword). I'm Irish, I can help out. Claíomh (pronounced clee-uvv) is Irish for sword. Beag (pronounced byug) means small, while mór (moor) means large. Claymore is a corruptionof "claíomh mór", meaning big sword, or great sword, if you will. The name is probably derived from Scottish rather than Irish, but there's little difference.
dengarbountyhunter 12-29-07, 08:30 PM	Thanks, I actually hoped that someone who spoke Gaelic would come up! Forgive my poor spelling...
Prime32 12-30-07, 01:33 PM	Nah, Old Irish used spellings like that, but nowadays sidhe is spelled sí, etc.
Waterhammer 12-30-07, 03:28 PM	Nah, Old Irish used spellings like that, but nowadays sidhe is spelled sí, etc. Really? I don't think I will be adopting the modern way, then. Simply because si already means yes, in Spanish.
Prime32 12-30-07, 05:09 PM	It also means "she" in Irish :confused: (it's pronounced she too) (bean sí)
mvincent 01-02-08, 02:45 PM	The d20 Modern SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd) description for Greatsword (under Arcana Equipment) reads: "Greatsword This huge sword, including the Scottish claymore, can deal tremendous damage in the right hands."
Prime32 01-02-08, 04:40 PM	I want to point out, while I'm at it, that unlike most languages, putting a line above a vowel in Irish turns it into a different letter. á (aw) é (ay) í (ee) ó (oh) ú (oo)