Clerics, shields & weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clerics, shields & weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dengarbountyhunter
09-16-07, 02:04 PM What's the best combination of shields and weapons for a cleric?

One-handed with a light shield, to keep the ability to cast spells?
Two-handed with a buckler (for the same reason)?
Heavy shield, and a weapon in hand only when not casting spells?
Leress
09-16-07, 05:46 PM One handed with light shield, since you can carry your holy symbol in your hand with the shield and don't spend actions to retrieve it.

Of course others will most likely start talking about having your holy symbol on your armor or shield, or putting strips on your weapons to drop them with out losing them and making them a free action to get. Those are just house rules though.
dman11235
09-16-07, 07:32 PM Just make your shield your holy symbol, another one on your armor, and a third just incase. Take a heavy shield and a one handed weapon, or your deity's favorite.
1 ton ghost
09-17-07, 02:50 PM save up for this, eventually you'll be ok

-Darkwood or Mithral Heavy Shield (treated a light)
-MW or + morningstar/mace (default cleric basher)

not 100% on the rules system for casting w/ weapon and shield. i like to give most friends' clerics the benefit of the doubt.

you can Sanctify (CompChmp) your weapons/armor/etc. they are treated as holy symbols which is super nice, especially when you've been grappled and it's stripped away, or if it's an expensive holy symbol and stolen.
tarkin
09-17-07, 03:31 PM You can also simply paint your holy symbol onto your shield or armor.

The main disadvantage of a Holy Symbol is that people can tell a lot about you when they see it.
JulesCARV
09-17-07, 03:41 PM Certainly, you can paint your deity/religion's symbol onto your shield or armor if you want to, but does it actually say anywhere in the rules that it can be used as your divine focus, and not just a decoration?
Howie23
09-17-07, 04:01 PM -Darkwood or Mithral Heavy Shield (treated a light)

This is the first time I've seen it interpretted that mithral changes the category of a shield.

I'd suggest that the DMG doesn't support this idea. Is it coming from somewhere else?

David
1 ton ghost
09-17-07, 07:37 PM This is the first time I've seen it interpretted that mithral changes the category of a shield.

I'd suggest that the DMG doesn't support this idea. Is it coming from somewhere else?

David

um, yeah as far as i know in the DMG. got me doubting myself now, but i'm pretty damn sure. stands to reason as well that if it knocks armor categories down a step (heavy->med->light) it would be easy to deduce a heavy shield (mithral) becoming light. could be mistaken though, check SRD or DMG.

most go darkwood heavy (light) for the tactical benefit, however, many prefer mithral as it's harder to sunder.

as for painting your holy symbol on anything...doesn't work. it must be Sanctified (CompChmp). that is, the object is prayed over, annoited w/ mystic oils/prayers/whatever and viola...the object in question becomes holy, not the image of a symbol.
think it's about 500gp/item, traditionally a melee weapon, shield, armor, etc.
if you were a real hardass as a DM you could argue only diety's favored weapon, or "spiritual slot affinity" so to speak, ex)boots if you have Travel domain, your torch for Fire, etc.
Tholas
09-18-07, 09:47 AM At least at low levels every bit of AC helps. I would recommend an heavy shield and 1h weapon attached to a sling that goes around your wrist. At least our DM allows to 'drop' the weapon(free action), cast a spell and 'pick up' the weapon again in your move action.
Our DM never ruled that a cleric actually has to hold his holy symbol to cast a spell, he just must be able to touch it.
rironin
09-18-07, 10:29 AM um, yeah as far as i know in the DMG. got me doubting myself now, but i'm pretty damn sure. stands to reason as well that if it knocks armor categories down a step (heavy->med->light) it would be easy to deduce a heavy shield (mithral) becoming light. could be mistaken though, check SRD or DMG.I'm with Howie23 on this.Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.It then goes on to describe how the ASF, max dex, and armor check penalties are altered for armor and shields. I don't think shields are included in the part about making armors lighter. At least that's how we've always played it.
Erhnam1982
09-18-07, 10:42 AM My DnD group just ran into this problem as well, someone wanted to use a Mithral Heavy Shield and Shield Spec: Light.

Shield's catagories are based on weight. Mithral changes weight, so rationally catagories would be changed.

Unfortunatly, the rules here are not rational. FAQ specifically says that Mithral doesn't change a shield's catagory.
rironin
09-18-07, 10:52 AM My DnD group just ran into this problem as well, someone wanted to use a Mithral Heavy Shield and Shield Spec: Light.

Shield's catagories are based on weight. Mithral changes weight, so rationally catagories would be changed.

Unfortunatly, the rules here are not rational. FAQ specifically says that Mithral doesn't change a shield's catagory.It's not necessarily irrational to me - at least, I can find a way to justify the above interpretation. A heavy mithral shield is lighter, yes, but the basic design is the same. It still straps to your forearm and needs to be held up with your shield hand to keep it steady and oriented properly. That sort of thing. It's true that if it were lighter it should be easier to do all that with a hand free, although, with a larger shield, it'd be more difficult to keep it properly oriented and protecting you when enemies struck the shield. Striking the edge of the top or bottom of a larger shield would put a lot of torque on it, and unless you were holding on to the handle with your hand, the shield would just rotate around your arm and smack you in the head.

The above is not a justification for the rule. Just an in-game explanation of why the rule might exist in a fantasy setting. I approve of the rule, so if anyone in my game asks me why they can't break it, I'll just use the above explanation :)
1 ton ghost
09-18-07, 01:44 PM hmm, these are pretty sound explanations and i probably stand corrected. nj all.
i could've sworn otherwise concerning weight/armor type. looks like we're going darkwood for now on until we can get a definitive ruling. Hell, it's not like shields are getting sundered very often anyway.

if i have my druthers, we'd all have animated shields and MW 2-handers anyway for the casting issue.
tarkin
09-18-07, 01:54 PM Certainly, you can paint your deity/religion's symbol onto your shield or armor if you want to, but does it actually say anywhere in the rules that it can be used as your divine focus, and not just a decoration?

Sage ruling, back in 3.0 I see no reason to change it.
tyrecian
09-18-07, 06:19 PM remember that with a heavy shield you cannot cast with a weapon any somatic spells, even with focus, sinceyou cannot transfer the weapon to off hand. For this reason i suggest the shield enhancement "Animated" with the use of a two handed weapon.

This is however pricey as a +2 enhancement, you already look to spend 14,000 gp to have it put on. Pricey but worth it in the long run later on in the game.

on edit, this post was totally unnecessary, hehe
dengarbountyhunter
09-19-07, 08:46 PM Great. So light shield + weapon or animated heavy shield + weapon if I can afford it.

Thanks guys.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dengarbountyhunter 09-16-07, 02:04 PM	What's the best combination of shields and weapons for a cleric? One-handed with a light shield, to keep the ability to cast spells? Two-handed with a buckler (for the same reason)? Heavy shield, and a weapon in hand only when not casting spells?
Leress 09-16-07, 05:46 PM	One handed with light shield, since you can carry your holy symbol in your hand with the shield and don't spend actions to retrieve it. Of course others will most likely start talking about having your holy symbol on your armor or shield, or putting strips on your weapons to drop them with out losing them and making them a free action to get. Those are just house rules though.
dman11235 09-16-07, 07:32 PM	Just make your shield your holy symbol, another one on your armor, and a third just incase. Take a heavy shield and a one handed weapon, or your deity's favorite.
1 ton ghost 09-17-07, 02:50 PM	save up for this, eventually you'll be ok -Darkwood or Mithral Heavy Shield (treated a light) -MW or + morningstar/mace (default cleric basher) not 100% on the rules system for casting w/ weapon and shield. i like to give most friends' clerics the benefit of the doubt. you can Sanctify (CompChmp) your weapons/armor/etc. they are treated as holy symbols which is super nice, especially when you've been grappled and it's stripped away, or if it's an expensive holy symbol and stolen.
tarkin 09-17-07, 03:31 PM	You can also simply paint your holy symbol onto your shield or armor. The main disadvantage of a Holy Symbol is that people can tell a lot about you when they see it.
JulesCARV 09-17-07, 03:41 PM	Certainly, you can paint your deity/religion's symbol onto your shield or armor if you want to, but does it actually say anywhere in the rules that it can be used as your divine focus, and not just a decoration?
Howie23 09-17-07, 04:01 PM	-Darkwood or Mithral Heavy Shield (treated a light) This is the first time I've seen it interpretted that mithral changes the category of a shield. I'd suggest that the DMG doesn't support this idea. Is it coming from somewhere else? David
1 ton ghost 09-17-07, 07:37 PM	This is the first time I've seen it interpretted that mithral changes the category of a shield. I'd suggest that the DMG doesn't support this idea. Is it coming from somewhere else? David um, yeah as far as i know in the DMG. got me doubting myself now, but i'm pretty damn sure. stands to reason as well that if it knocks armor categories down a step (heavy->med->light) it would be easy to deduce a heavy shield (mithral) becoming light. could be mistaken though, check SRD or DMG. most go darkwood heavy (light) for the tactical benefit, however, many prefer mithral as it's harder to sunder. as for painting your holy symbol on anything...doesn't work. it must be Sanctified (CompChmp). that is, the object is prayed over, annoited w/ mystic oils/prayers/whatever and viola...the object in question becomes holy, not the image of a symbol. think it's about 500gp/item, traditionally a melee weapon, shield, armor, etc. if you were a real hardass as a DM you could argue only diety's favored weapon, or "spiritual slot affinity" so to speak, ex)boots if you have Travel domain, your torch for Fire, etc.
Tholas 09-18-07, 09:47 AM	At least at low levels every bit of AC helps. I would recommend an heavy shield and 1h weapon attached to a sling that goes around your wrist. At least our DM allows to 'drop' the weapon(free action), cast a spell and 'pick up' the weapon again in your move action. Our DM never ruled that a cleric actually has to hold his holy symbol to cast a spell, he just must be able to touch it.
rironin 09-18-07, 10:29 AM	um, yeah as far as i know in the DMG. got me doubting myself now, but i'm pretty damn sure. stands to reason as well that if it knocks armor categories down a step (heavy->med->light) it would be easy to deduce a heavy shield (mithral) becoming light. could be mistaken though, check SRD or DMG.I'm with Howie23 on this.Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.It then goes on to describe how the ASF, max dex, and armor check penalties are altered for armor and shields. I don't think shields are included in the part about making armors lighter. At least that's how we've always played it.
Erhnam1982 09-18-07, 10:42 AM	My DnD group just ran into this problem as well, someone wanted to use a Mithral Heavy Shield and Shield Spec: Light. Shield's catagories are based on weight. Mithral changes weight, so rationally catagories would be changed. Unfortunatly, the rules here are not rational. FAQ specifically says that Mithral doesn't change a shield's catagory.
rironin 09-18-07, 10:52 AM	My DnD group just ran into this problem as well, someone wanted to use a Mithral Heavy Shield and Shield Spec: Light. Shield's catagories are based on weight. Mithral changes weight, so rationally catagories would be changed. Unfortunatly, the rules here are not rational. FAQ specifically says that Mithral doesn't change a shield's catagory.It's not necessarily irrational to me - at least, I can find a way to justify the above interpretation. A heavy mithral shield is lighter, yes, but the basic design is the same. It still straps to your forearm and needs to be held up with your shield hand to keep it steady and oriented properly. That sort of thing. It's true that if it were lighter it should be easier to do all that with a hand free, although, with a larger shield, it'd be more difficult to keep it properly oriented and protecting you when enemies struck the shield. Striking the edge of the top or bottom of a larger shield would put a lot of torque on it, and unless you were holding on to the handle with your hand, the shield would just rotate around your arm and smack you in the head. The above is not a justification for the rule. Just an in-game explanation of why the rule might exist in a fantasy setting. I approve of the rule, so if anyone in my game asks me why they can't break it, I'll just use the above explanation :)
1 ton ghost 09-18-07, 01:44 PM	hmm, these are pretty sound explanations and i probably stand corrected. nj all. i could've sworn otherwise concerning weight/armor type. looks like we're going darkwood for now on until we can get a definitive ruling. Hell, it's not like shields are getting sundered very often anyway. if i have my druthers, we'd all have animated shields and MW 2-handers anyway for the casting issue.
tarkin 09-18-07, 01:54 PM	Certainly, you can paint your deity/religion's symbol onto your shield or armor if you want to, but does it actually say anywhere in the rules that it can be used as your divine focus, and not just a decoration? Sage ruling, back in 3.0 I see no reason to change it.
tyrecian 09-18-07, 06:19 PM	remember that with a heavy shield you cannot cast with a weapon any somatic spells, even with focus, sinceyou cannot transfer the weapon to off hand. For this reason i suggest the shield enhancement "Animated" with the use of a two handed weapon. This is however pricey as a +2 enhancement, you already look to spend 14,000 gp to have it put on. Pricey but worth it in the long run later on in the game. on edit, this post was totally unnecessary, hehe
dengarbountyhunter 09-19-07, 08:46 PM	Great. So light shield + weapon or animated heavy shield + weapon if I can afford it. Thanks guys.