Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ecramer 12-03-05, 02:51 PM	So, here's the problem. Clerics are proficient with both light and heavy shields. Every example I've seen in the various DnD books has been a cleric with a heavy shield. But how the crap does a cleric cast his/her spells (with somatic components) with a heavy shield and a weapon equipped? With the current rules, they can't! You need at least one hand free to cast spells with somatic components. So it seems that the cleric proficiency with the heavy shield is quite useless. With the current rules, clerics have to use a light shield in order to cast spells in combat--I figure they can toss their weapon into their shield hand, cast the spell, and put the weapon back. Has everyone missed something here? Or, more likely, have I? My friends keep telling me to ignore this problem . . . .
Plothos 12-03-05, 03:08 PM	By the RAW, you're right. And the faq backs this up too, I believe. My cleric PC uses a buckler. Really this only loses 1 AC, which isn't too huge. It's also a better option than the light shield, because you don't even have to transfer the weapon. You can do the somatic component with the off-hand. Also, there's the option of keeping the heavy shield and (when casting somatic spells, not all are) ditching the weapon somehow. This can be putting it away as a move (which restricts you to a 5' step that round, if you want to cast) or dropping it for free as a pinch. You'll probably want to carry a spare weapon if you do this. On the bright side, since you can draw for free when you move, you don't really lose anything the next round. Personally, I think losing the 1 AC for the buckler is a better idea, but this is the quandry for clerics. Oh, another way to do is to ditch the shield altogether and go for a two-handed weapon. This is a very good choice for any fighter/cleric type builds. You could also burn a feat on spiked chain or something. Many fighters opt to lose shield AC for offense anyway, and the cleric who's forced to lose heavy AC anyway might want to take advantage of the opportunity for higher offense by losing light shield/buckler AC as well. My cleric always rolls 1-4 when attacking anyway, so I stick with a buckler and hope I don't die. :weep:
Sledged 12-03-05, 03:09 PM	Another way around the weapon/heavy shield obstical is to have a tether attached the end of the handle and have the tether wrapped around your wrist. When you need to cast a spell, just let the weapon dangle from your arm.
Ecramer 12-03-05, 03:27 PM	I like these ideas, but something needs to be done in future editions . . . either clerics should have more lenient rules concerning heavy shields, or they should just take the heavy shield proficiency away! Bah . . . maybe I'm just *****ing because my character's Dex is currently 11 and all I've got is scale mail . . .
Subedei 12-03-05, 03:55 PM	I just ignore that rule, too much trouble for something with so little impact on the game.
ShinAkuma2 12-03-05, 04:17 PM	The ones with the shields tend to be smash 'em up clerics, who buff themselves before wading into combat. The healer/support types tend not to get in the way of combat, and are a little less armored.
Rulebook 12-03-05, 05:02 PM	wow, generally we dont have weapons equipped when we cast spells period in my group. i mean thats sort of a manditory thing, the whole free-hand bit. (though the hand that holds the holy symbol counts as a free hand in my book!)
Waterhammer 12-03-05, 05:20 PM	Perhaps the cleric can wave a (one-handed)weapon to perform the somatic component. The arcane spell failure chance for armor does not apply to clerics; so their spells must be much easier to cast.
DarknessEternal 12-03-05, 06:09 PM	Don't ignore the rule. Clerics need to be less powerful, not more. If you want to cast while using a shield and a weapon, use a buckler. Otherwise don't. It's your option, no one forces you to take it. Fighters are proficient in tower shields, but how many actually use it?
Sledged 12-03-05, 07:20 PM	Perhaps the cleric can wave a (one-handed)weapon to perform the somatic component. The arcane spell failure chance for armor does not apply to clerics; so their spells must be much easier to cast.Except that the rules explicitly say "You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component," (PHB 174) and they don't say that divine spellcasters are exempt.
Nethicus 12-03-05, 08:20 PM	There's an exotic shield in Races of Stone that's called a Shield Gauntlet which allows you to wear a heavy shield and cast spells. It's an exotic shield, so it requires the exotic shield proficiecy, but it allows a Divine spellcaster to get a Heavy Shield & bonus and still cast spells. It also implies you cannot cast spells with a normal heavy shield, as your hand is occupied.
Nom 12-04-05, 05:35 AM	I've seen several clerics use the "buff then attack" technique, for which the heavy shield works fine. You cast your spells using your weapon hand, then draw your weapon as you move to attack.
Prominence 12-04-05, 12:10 PM	You can still cast spells with light shields, for 1 ac loss and retain the ability to shield bash.
Anodai 12-04-05, 01:06 PM	Try using an anamated shield
zelf_gale 12-04-05, 01:26 PM	I commonly wonder why weapons can't have lanyards that would allow you to drop them (free action) without leaving them behind and letting you have a free hand before you re-ready them (move action or as part of a move). On the other hand, I have become enamored with the idea of a spike chain cleric. Divine casters ought to have reach so that they can be close to fighters to heal them but still attack without having to cast defensively.
AndrasOtto 12-04-05, 06:51 PM	A Glove of Storing is also pretty handy when you need to put that weapon away to cast a spell.
TheNoblefool 12-04-05, 11:52 PM	Well, it's possible that because the cleric is using faith to fuel their magic, their somatic gestures can be performed while being moderately hindered by the shield. And if you're wearing a shield, you could always release the end you're holding and let it slide down your arm while you gesture. . .