Cloak of Etherealness and the guy in the Bag of Holding [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cloak of Etherealness and the guy in the Bag of Holding [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dr. No
11-01-04, 04:09 AM Hello guys and girls,

i need some advise from the community.
Let's say i have a Cloak of Etheralness and a guy in my Bag of Holding.
-What happens when i use the cloak?
-Is the bag of holding coming with me? How about the guy?

Pretending the guy came with me of the Ethereal Plane.
-What happens when i deactivate the cloak to get back on the Material Plane?
-Does he stay there? Does he come back with me?

Thanks for your answers
Dr. No
calypso
11-01-04, 04:34 AM So, the Cloak of Etherealness acts as the spell Ethereal Jaunt. Which says:

"You become ethereal, along with your equipment."

That includes your bag of holding. Here's the key part. The bag of holding is tied to a nondimensional space. When you go ethereal, the bag itself goes ethereal, but not the nondimensional space. So basically, the means of accessing the nondimensional space go ethereal, but the space itself is untouched. So, while you can't access anything in your bag of holding, the contents of it are fine.

To directly answer your questions:

What happens when you use the cloak: You and your equipment go ethereal.
Is the bag of holding going with you: Yes, it becomes ethereal.
Is the guy going with you: He is in the nondimensional space, which never really "goes" anywhere.
What happens when you deactivate the cloak: You and your equipment are no longer ethereal.
Does he stay there: He is still in the nondimensional space. He hasn't moved.
Does he come back with you: See above.

Hope that helps!

Calypso
Dr. No
11-01-04, 05:35 AM Calypso, thank you for your answer,

But I don't understand why I can't access the stuff in the bag when i am Ethereal. So if i understand what you mean, a bag is not useable on any other plane than the the Material Plane?

My point of view is: In the Ethereal Plane, when the guy is in the Bag, he is not Ethereal since he is in the nondimension space. That i agree with you.
But when that guy is pulled out the bag, he step into the plane the Bag is on. In this case the Etereal one. The bag is acting like a portal between the nondimension space and the Plane the bag is on.
And when the Cloak is deactivated, since he hadn't actually stepped into the Ethereal Plane by the means of the Cloak but via the "Portal" of the Bag, he stays there.

What do you think?
Dr. No
calypso
11-01-04, 10:52 AM Really, this is a DM call. I don't think it is addressed anywhere directly. But, I'd rule the way I posted because I hate when players hop into bags of holding ;)

Calypso
tarkin
11-01-04, 11:04 AM You are missing the point.

The bag itself does not operate on the ethereal plane.

Why? From an out of game/balance perspective, mainly to stop bright geniusies like you from abusing the rules and sending people to the ethereal plane permanently.

Why? From an in-game perspective, the bag is not a real bag no matter what it looks like. It is a device that creates a coterminous point between itself and a plane that it coterminous with the materail plane.

The ethereal plane is coexistant with the materail plane but it does NOT touch the plane where the bag's inside exists. As such, the device does not function.

If you were in fact to go into the bag, then you could not make yourself ethereal there using the normal means, because the bag is not touching the ethereal plane. Instead it would require a spell such as Gate or Plane Shift.
pyk
11-01-04, 12:21 PM tarkin/calypso:
If this is true, then all items which link to a nondimensional space do not work?

Such as a quiver of ehlonna - you cannot extract the items until you rematerialize, yes?

Also, if the use of nondimensional space items restricted to the material plane, then waht might happen if one travels to another plane entirely? Say, an elemental plane?
TheEnforcer
11-01-04, 02:13 PM How did you get the guy instide it in the 1st place? How did he fit into the mouth of the bag? Is it a little guy?
calypso
11-01-04, 02:59 PM The opening to a bag of holding is big enough to accomodate a medium sized humanoid.
CruelDM
11-01-04, 03:21 PM The first time the PCs in our home campaign got in their bag of holding I allowed it because I hadnt myself considered it large enough to accomodate a PC. The very next treasure item they found was a bag of devouring that they thought was a bag of holding, in fact a sum of gold and a minor wand fell out if it when they dumped it out. They havent tried a 3rd time to get in a bag, I think they got the point.
Dr. No
11-01-04, 05:24 PM Calypso, mmm too bad, I'll have to find another way to get some privacy from my "exalted" companion to "ask questions to prisonners". :D

Tarkin, i'm not some munchkin, but my character DO own those items and I want to use their power as much as i can since i don't have one billion new spells every 2 levels. And may i ask where is the balance to have a fighter when there are cleric and druids? Sorry but i don't like being called names when i politely ask some questions which those board are for, i think.

Thanks all
Dr. No
calypso
11-01-04, 05:30 PM Tarkin, i'm not some munchkin, but my character DO own those items and I want to use their power as much as i can since i don't have one billion new spells every 2 levels. And may i ask where is the balance to have a fighter when there are cleric and druids? Sorry but i don't like being called names when i politely ask some questions which those board are for, i think.

:confused: :confused:

Where is the balance to have a fighter... when... huh?

Tarkin never called you a name. He called you a bright genius, and I think he was at least partly serious.

But, the fact of the matter is that putting people into a bag of holding is (in my mind) the definition of munchkin.

Calypso
Dr. No
11-01-04, 07:05 PM Sorry for my bad English. I meant the D20 system by itself is NOT and never will be balanced. So why should we talk about balance? For me there are only 2 classes/leagues: spellcasters and non spellcasters....
Ok let's all leave the bad karma aside.
Munchkin? i am just reading the Master Guide as it is written :confused: but you consider putting ppl in a Bag of Holding is being munchkin, I'll use a Portable Hole then :D

Just Kidding...
Dr. No

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dr. No 11-01-04, 04:09 AM	Hello guys and girls, i need some advise from the community. Let's say i have a Cloak of Etheralness and a guy in my Bag of Holding. -What happens when i use the cloak? -Is the bag of holding coming with me? How about the guy? Pretending the guy came with me of the Ethereal Plane. -What happens when i deactivate the cloak to get back on the Material Plane? -Does he stay there? Does he come back with me? Thanks for your answers Dr. No
calypso 11-01-04, 04:34 AM	So, the Cloak of Etherealness acts as the spell Ethereal Jaunt. Which says: "You become ethereal, along with your equipment." That includes your bag of holding. Here's the key part. The bag of holding is tied to a nondimensional space. When you go ethereal, the bag itself goes ethereal, but not the nondimensional space. So basically, the means of accessing the nondimensional space go ethereal, but the space itself is untouched. So, while you can't access anything in your bag of holding, the contents of it are fine. To directly answer your questions: What happens when you use the cloak: You and your equipment go ethereal. Is the bag of holding going with you: Yes, it becomes ethereal. Is the guy going with you: He is in the nondimensional space, which never really "goes" anywhere. What happens when you deactivate the cloak: You and your equipment are no longer ethereal. Does he stay there: He is still in the nondimensional space. He hasn't moved. Does he come back with you: See above. Hope that helps! Calypso
Dr. No 11-01-04, 05:35 AM	Calypso, thank you for your answer, But I don't understand why I can't access the stuff in the bag when i am Ethereal. So if i understand what you mean, a bag is not useable on any other plane than the the Material Plane? My point of view is: In the Ethereal Plane, when the guy is in the Bag, he is not Ethereal since he is in the nondimension space. That i agree with you. But when that guy is pulled out the bag, he step into the plane the Bag is on. In this case the Etereal one. The bag is acting like a portal between the nondimension space and the Plane the bag is on. And when the Cloak is deactivated, since he hadn't actually stepped into the Ethereal Plane by the means of the Cloak but via the "Portal" of the Bag, he stays there. What do you think? Dr. No
calypso 11-01-04, 10:52 AM	Really, this is a DM call. I don't think it is addressed anywhere directly. But, I'd rule the way I posted because I hate when players hop into bags of holding ;) Calypso
tarkin 11-01-04, 11:04 AM	You are missing the point. The bag itself does not operate on the ethereal plane. Why? From an out of game/balance perspective, mainly to stop bright geniusies like you from abusing the rules and sending people to the ethereal plane permanently. Why? From an in-game perspective, the bag is not a real bag no matter what it looks like. It is a device that creates a coterminous point between itself and a plane that it coterminous with the materail plane. The ethereal plane is coexistant with the materail plane but it does NOT touch the plane where the bag's inside exists. As such, the device does not function. If you were in fact to go into the bag, then you could not make yourself ethereal there using the normal means, because the bag is not touching the ethereal plane. Instead it would require a spell such as Gate or Plane Shift.
pyk 11-01-04, 12:21 PM	tarkin/calypso: If this is true, then all items which link to a nondimensional space do not work? Such as a quiver of ehlonna - you cannot extract the items until you rematerialize, yes? Also, if the use of nondimensional space items restricted to the material plane, then waht might happen if one travels to another plane entirely? Say, an elemental plane?
TheEnforcer 11-01-04, 02:13 PM	How did you get the guy instide it in the 1st place? How did he fit into the mouth of the bag? Is it a little guy?
calypso 11-01-04, 02:59 PM	The opening to a bag of holding is big enough to accomodate a medium sized humanoid.
CruelDM 11-01-04, 03:21 PM	The first time the PCs in our home campaign got in their bag of holding I allowed it because I hadnt myself considered it large enough to accomodate a PC. The very next treasure item they found was a bag of devouring that they thought was a bag of holding, in fact a sum of gold and a minor wand fell out if it when they dumped it out. They havent tried a 3rd time to get in a bag, I think they got the point.
Dr. No 11-01-04, 05:24 PM	Calypso, mmm too bad, I'll have to find another way to get some privacy from my "exalted" companion to "ask questions to prisonners". :D Tarkin, i'm not some munchkin, but my character DO own those items and I want to use their power as much as i can since i don't have one billion new spells every 2 levels. And may i ask where is the balance to have a fighter when there are cleric and druids? Sorry but i don't like being called names when i politely ask some questions which those board are for, i think. Thanks all Dr. No
calypso 11-01-04, 05:30 PM	Tarkin, i'm not some munchkin, but my character DO own those items and I want to use their power as much as i can since i don't have one billion new spells every 2 levels. And may i ask where is the balance to have a fighter when there are cleric and druids? Sorry but i don't like being called names when i politely ask some questions which those board are for, i think. :confused: :confused: Where is the balance to have a fighter... when... huh? Tarkin never called you a name. He called you a bright genius, and I think he was at least partly serious. But, the fact of the matter is that putting people into a bag of holding is (in my mind) the definition of munchkin. Calypso
Dr. No 11-01-04, 07:05 PM	Sorry for my bad English. I meant the D20 system by itself is NOT and never will be balanced. So why should we talk about balance? For me there are only 2 classes/leagues: spellcasters and non spellcasters.... Ok let's all leave the bad karma aside. Munchkin? i am just reading the Master Guide as it is written :confused: but you consider putting ppl in a Bag of Holding is being munchkin, I'll use a Portable Hole then :D Just Kidding... Dr. No