Clothing as Armor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clothing as Armor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thaebius
08-16-05, 05:26 PM Ok, this question has bugged me off and on for the last 2 years or so, and I was hoping to get some of your guy's opinions on it. No real situation occurring, I'm not DMing at the moment, and am not playing a Rogue/ Dex based character, nor intending to in the immediate future. So, purely hypothetically.

Padded Armor states that it is essentially just extra layers of padding, and provides little protection beyond that of normal clothing. Thus, only a +1 armor bonus, but max dex bonus of +8 (IIRC, actual stats not so important here, so not looking it up atm).

Now, normal clothing, then, provides an armor bonus of 0 (doesn't provide one, it's the base), but Does allow a max dex bonus of infinite.

From that, could you consider normal clothing an "armor" one step below padded, with no armor bonus? Which is to say, could you enchant simple clothes, or robes, or whatever, as armor, strengthening and toughening them magically to resist blows (enchantment bonus to AC) and putting on the associated special abilities? Thus, a set of +3 Oiled Garments of Fire Resistance (moderate) ? (Chosen for special irony).

Or, is that too powerful? Does a Rogue allowed to max dex ridiculously already wearing their +5 Garments of Heavy Fortification and apply their +15 dex bonus, or whatever, unbalance it? It is, after all, then unlike any other armor, in no cap on dex, in addition to no armor check penalty and no arcane casting failure.

Just looking for some opinions pro or con, and reasons why. Also, if it's covered in the RAW, a FAQ, or Errata, a simple link will suffice, and sorry for being lame and repeating covered ground.

Thanks in advance!
tarkin
08-16-05, 05:36 PM It should be fine as long as:

1) It occupies the armor slot

2) It has the solid +10 total limit in place.
primemover003
08-16-05, 05:42 PM According to the latest Sage advice in Dragon Magazine a piece of clothing couldn't be used as a weapon (specifically a Glove). I'd venture to say that you couldn't enhance clothing as armor either... at least not with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. You could make them Wonderous Items like Robes, many of which grant an Armor bonus like the Robes of the Archmagi...
John Q. Mayhem
08-16-05, 06:00 PM IMC, bracers of armor require the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat rather than Craft Wondrous Item. Similarly, Keoghtom's ointment requires Brew Potion.

Anyhow, yeah, I allow that.

Ah, reminds me again why I prefer Elements of Magic (Revised) (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&). The limit's on the number of magic items and permanent spells rather than body slots.
GemX
08-16-05, 06:06 PM Magic Vestment is a way to give normal clothing an enhancement bonus.
xver
08-16-05, 06:17 PM For starters, the so called "Sage Advice" is often terriblle. So don't let that stop you. It's not broken in the least. Non epic armor (or clothing in this case) can only go up to +5. Non epic Bracers of Armor can go up to +10.

However, there is at least one thing to watch out for. Characters with magic cloths and bracers of armor. The clothes grant an enhancement bonus and the bracers grant an armor bonus. Between the two, you can get up to +15 AC with unlimited Dex to AC, no ACP or ASF. I'm not sure what to do about that.

On the other hand, can you actually use Bracers of Armor and armor together? I know the armor bonuses don't stack, but there are other reasons to use both. (Enhancement, bracers work vs the incorporeal, special abilities, etc.) If they can be, is the change from a minimum of padded armor to cloth game breaking?

P.S. A nearly identical thread appeared within the last few days.
Siege Engineer
08-16-05, 06:39 PM Making clothing give you an AC bonus is possible in 3.5 game rules. But there is a catch, it can only be crafted with "Craft Wondrous Item" feat. Since clothing (let's say a shirt) is not an armor, "Craft Magic Arms and Armor" feat doesn't apply. But let's say you can consider clothing as an +0 armor.

If you craft it as a wondrous item price would be estimated according to the type of bonus it provides. So you can make a Shirt that gives you an +5 deflection (luck, sacred, insight, profane are all options in woundrous items' bonuses). Furthermore, you can actually make a shirt that gives you armor bonus (with craft wondrous, in your case we can do the same with craft magic arms) But the question is, would you really want that? Cause if you wear that +5 Armor bonus Shirt, you can't wear any armor or robe (It occupies the body slot). Considering there are armors which allow up to +8 dex bonus to ac, you have to have a dex of 30 to get the upper hand in this deal. Which is not possible until very high levels in a standard campaign.
This is why spellcasters wear robes that gives them armor bonuses. Avoid arcane spell failure and get an armor bonus to their acs. But with any other class, it seems like a bad choice to me. And if a player has +15 dex bonus (must get the score up to 40), the game is broken by my standards (excluding epic characters, and in that case nothing is too powerful).

So I think the question is not which feat to use, the question is would you accept that kind of ability score in your game (Both as a player and a DM)
primemover003
08-16-05, 10:49 PM I guess in my mind if you want armor, buy armor. If you want magic protection use bracers or robes or use spells. Clothing as armor is basically a way to get around armor proficiency and penalties for wearing armor (Bbn speed, Monk special abilities, etc).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thaebius 08-16-05, 05:26 PM	Ok, this question has bugged me off and on for the last 2 years or so, and I was hoping to get some of your guy's opinions on it. No real situation occurring, I'm not DMing at the moment, and am not playing a Rogue/ Dex based character, nor intending to in the immediate future. So, purely hypothetically. Padded Armor states that it is essentially just extra layers of padding, and provides little protection beyond that of normal clothing. Thus, only a +1 armor bonus, but max dex bonus of +8 (IIRC, actual stats not so important here, so not looking it up atm). Now, normal clothing, then, provides an armor bonus of 0 (doesn't provide one, it's the base), but Does allow a max dex bonus of infinite. From that, could you consider normal clothing an "armor" one step below padded, with no armor bonus? Which is to say, could you enchant simple clothes, or robes, or whatever, as armor, strengthening and toughening them magically to resist blows (enchantment bonus to AC) and putting on the associated special abilities? Thus, a set of +3 Oiled Garments of Fire Resistance (moderate) ? (Chosen for special irony). Or, is that too powerful? Does a Rogue allowed to max dex ridiculously already wearing their +5 Garments of Heavy Fortification and apply their +15 dex bonus, or whatever, unbalance it? It is, after all, then unlike any other armor, in no cap on dex, in addition to no armor check penalty and no arcane casting failure. Just looking for some opinions pro or con, and reasons why. Also, if it's covered in the RAW, a FAQ, or Errata, a simple link will suffice, and sorry for being lame and repeating covered ground. Thanks in advance!
tarkin 08-16-05, 05:36 PM	It should be fine as long as: 1) It occupies the armor slot 2) It has the solid +10 total limit in place.
primemover003 08-16-05, 05:42 PM	According to the latest Sage advice in Dragon Magazine a piece of clothing couldn't be used as a weapon (specifically a Glove). I'd venture to say that you couldn't enhance clothing as armor either... at least not with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. You could make them Wonderous Items like Robes, many of which grant an Armor bonus like the Robes of the Archmagi...
John Q. Mayhem 08-16-05, 06:00 PM	IMC, bracers of armor require the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat rather than Craft Wondrous Item. Similarly, Keoghtom's ointment requires Brew Potion. Anyhow, yeah, I allow that. Ah, reminds me again why I prefer Elements of Magic (Revised) (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&). The limit's on the number of magic items and permanent spells rather than body slots.
GemX 08-16-05, 06:06 PM	Magic Vestment is a way to give normal clothing an enhancement bonus.
xver 08-16-05, 06:17 PM	For starters, the so called "Sage Advice" is often terriblle. So don't let that stop you. It's not broken in the least. Non epic armor (or clothing in this case) can only go up to +5. Non epic Bracers of Armor can go up to +10. However, there is at least one thing to watch out for. Characters with magic cloths and bracers of armor. The clothes grant an enhancement bonus and the bracers grant an armor bonus. Between the two, you can get up to +15 AC with unlimited Dex to AC, no ACP or ASF. I'm not sure what to do about that. On the other hand, can you actually use Bracers of Armor and armor together? I know the armor bonuses don't stack, but there are other reasons to use both. (Enhancement, bracers work vs the incorporeal, special abilities, etc.) If they can be, is the change from a minimum of padded armor to cloth game breaking? P.S. A nearly identical thread appeared within the last few days.
Siege Engineer 08-16-05, 06:39 PM	Making clothing give you an AC bonus is possible in 3.5 game rules. But there is a catch, it can only be crafted with "Craft Wondrous Item" feat. Since clothing (let's say a shirt) is not an armor, "Craft Magic Arms and Armor" feat doesn't apply. But let's say you can consider clothing as an +0 armor. If you craft it as a wondrous item price would be estimated according to the type of bonus it provides. So you can make a Shirt that gives you an +5 deflection (luck, sacred, insight, profane are all options in woundrous items' bonuses). Furthermore, you can actually make a shirt that gives you armor bonus (with craft wondrous, in your case we can do the same with craft magic arms) But the question is, would you really want that? Cause if you wear that +5 Armor bonus Shirt, you can't wear any armor or robe (It occupies the body slot). Considering there are armors which allow up to +8 dex bonus to ac, you have to have a dex of 30 to get the upper hand in this deal. Which is not possible until very high levels in a standard campaign. This is why spellcasters wear robes that gives them armor bonuses. Avoid arcane spell failure and get an armor bonus to their acs. But with any other class, it seems like a bad choice to me. And if a player has +15 dex bonus (must get the score up to 40), the game is broken by my standards (excluding epic characters, and in that case nothing is too powerful). So I think the question is not which feat to use, the question is would you accept that kind of ability score in your game (Both as a player and a DM)
primemover003 08-16-05, 10:49 PM	I guess in my mind if you want armor, buy armor. If you want magic protection use bracers or robes or use spells. Clothing as armor is basically a way to get around armor proficiency and penalties for wearing armor (Bbn speed, Monk special abilities, etc).