Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skittles The Death Knight 07-05-06, 08:36 PM	wel;l im new at makeing items and i tryed at this one but i could not balance it out! its ether WAY to strong or WAY to weak! gggrrr....well i would like it if anyone could give me ideas on how to balance it out or even make it for me!? :D well a younger DM really needs help right! and all i have is my dad and he has no idea cuz he dose not make items! please help! thanks for even reading this!
Thorak 07-05-06, 08:56 PM	The guy from FF7? Greatsword. Done.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-05-06, 09:03 PM	Yeah... great swords are big... but not too big. You want too big. Behold: http://worldofere.com/equipment/weapons.htm#daizaku Daizaku Two-handed, exotic melee 2d6 18-20x2 slashing -- 500gp A daizaku is impossible to wield as a weapon without special training. No character can use a daizaku if they are not proficient with it. A daizaku is difficult to sheath and unsheathe, requiring a full round to unsheathe and sheath. The Quick Draw feat makes this a move equivalent action. In either case, sheathing or unsheathing a daizaku is so involved that it provokes and attack of opportunity. http://worldofere.com/equipment/weapons.htm#direblade Direblade Two-handed, exotic melee 2d8 19-20x2 slashing --300gp A direblade is impossible to wield as a weapon without special training. No character can use a direblade if they are not proficient with it. A direblade is difficult to sheath and unsheathe, requiring a full round to unsheathe and sheath. The Quick Draw feat makes this a move equivalent action. In either case, sheathing or unsheathing a direblade is so involved that it provokes and attack of opportunity. Just reflavor to your world and there you go.
Kothardarastrix 07-05-06, 09:06 PM	Firstly, it's Cloud Strife, he's not Scottish. Secondly, it's a greatsword or fullblade, possibly a large Bastard Sword wielded using Monkey Grip. Now if you are talking about the Ultima Weapon then it's an artifact level weapon.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-05-06, 09:10 PM	Before anyone says anything, the big swords I posted are actually slightly underpowered by the much vaunted point system for weapon creation and the prices are flavor text, not meant for balance.
Count Arioch the 28th 07-05-06, 09:12 PM	Cloud's sword was designed like it was because the limits of the original game made it difficult to animate a normal sword druing the FMV sequences, so they gave cloud a huge one-edged sword. Plus, the relative clumsiness and cumbersome balace of said blade helped give Cloud the illusion of being very strong and agile despite being of slight build. Seriously, like the Thorak said, it's a greatsword with a unique style to it. (Am I th only person that allows for non-stat related weapon customization? Geez)
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-05-06, 09:26 PM	(Am I th only person that allows for non-stat related weapon customization? Geez) No, but there's a point where you just need the right tool for the job. That job is 'being damn huge'. Its bigness is perfection.
Bulletproof_Condom 07-05-06, 09:29 PM	That job is 'being damn huge'. Its bigness is perfection. How is that not purely a flavor issue? If you're satisfied with 2d6 damage, why can't you just say "you're wielding a giant piece of steel that looks like a huge butterknife," and give it the stats of a greatsword? Take Monkey Grip and make it a Large greatsword if you really want, but it shouldn't be necessary to make new mechanics for even bigger weapons. Just describe it as being really big.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-05-06, 09:37 PM	How is that not purely a flavor issue? My apologies for not properly marking my snark. Sometimes though, you do want to have stats from something bigger than a greatsword and there is room at the top of the Exotic weapons spectrum for them, so why the hell not?
GhostStepper 07-05-06, 09:40 PM	The Fullblade is perfect. Its bigger than the greatsword (thus 'special'), its in an official WotC book (even though it is 3.0) and being an exotic weapon, its not unbalanced.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-05-06, 09:55 PM	The Fullblade is perfect. Its bigger than the greatsword (thus 'special'), its in an official WotC book (even though it is 3.0) and being an exotic weapon, its not unbalanced. Until everybody and his baby's momma started adding balanced, monkey grip and mercurial all on the poor thing. :mad:
GhostStepper 07-05-06, 10:13 PM	Until everybody and his baby's momma started adding balanced, monkey grip and mercurial all on the poor thing. :mad: eh...im sure that the guy is not designing this for a cleric or druid so its not like it would unbalance anything too much. Afterall, Cloud "McStrife" (LMAO) wasnt a cleric. Besides, the Huge Balanced Fullblade monkey gripped is doing 4 more damage on average than a Huge Balanced Greatsword monkey gripped. By the time a fighter can afford good armor and a Balanced weapon he'll need that extra 4 to keep up with the other classes, and if he's monkey gripping instead of power attacking with a smaller weapon he's gonna need all the help he can get.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-05-06, 10:27 PM	eh...im sure that the guy is not designing this for a cleric or druid so its not like it would unbalance anything too much. Afterall, Cloud "McStrife" (LMAO) wasnt a cleric. Besides, the Huge Balanced Fullblade monkey gripped is doing 4 more damage on average than a Huge Balanced Greatsword monkey gripped. By the time a fighter can afford good armor and a Balanced weapon he'll need that extra 4 to keep up with the other classes, and if he's monkey gripping instead of power attacking with a smaller weapon he's gonna need all the help he can get. Nah, I'm cool with the Full Blade -- the Dire Blade IS the Full Blade, really. I'm just ranting on how for a time everyone was like "its the biggest weapon in the game, lets see how wierd we can get!" Which is ironic, because a 4th level human commoner who started with Str 3 can weild a Large greatsword with little trouble... yet people tried to sad the fullblade was crazy.
Kelwyn 07-05-06, 10:30 PM	What about Monkey Grip in combination with the "Heavy Weapons" from the Forgotten Realms? You basically advance each die of the weapon by one category, but the weapons becomes exotic (like the direblade), in combination with monkey grip it should become the oversized sword from Cloud (must be 3d8 or something like this)
Teh_username 07-05-06, 10:48 PM	No, but there's a point where you just need the right tool for the job. That job is 'being damn huge'. Its bigness is perfection. You'd have to be some kind of meat miracle to wield a sword like that.
CryoSilver 07-05-06, 10:53 PM	Yep.
wolfie-kun 07-05-06, 10:57 PM	You'd have to be some kind of meat miracle to wield a sword like that. My DM and I have come to the conclusion that Cloud's sword was made of either mithral or some other weird, futuristic alloy, which let him (and a large number of other characters in that game) wield such weapons quite easily.
GhostStepper 07-05-06, 11:01 PM	My DM and I have come to the conclusion that Cloud's sword was made of either mithral or some other weird, futuristic alloy, which let him (and a large number of other characters in that game) wield such weapons quite easily. Just look at his hair. In his universe gravity is obviously on the fritz. In final fantasy world you can look like a girl, have a man's voice, and wield a sword thats way too big for your 12 year old girl physique. I suppose mithril could explain it.
ShinAkuma2 07-05-06, 11:29 PM	You'd have to be some kind of meat miracle to wield a sword like that. Sort of like a Danny Glover cosplayer?
Cainne 07-06-06, 02:44 AM	Nothing wrong with a Danny Glover Cosplayer Odd...Definately But wrong... not really
shift244 07-06-06, 06:56 AM	Just look at his hair. In his universe gravity is obviously on the fritz. In final fantasy world you can look like a girl, have a man's voice, and wield a sword thats way too big for your 12 year old girl physique. I suppose mithril could explain it.But mithral does mechanically nothing to a weapon's damage, size, proficiency, penalties for handedness etc. It does change the weight.... but a Mitral Balanced Fullblade monkey gripped and an Iron Balanced Fullblade monkey gripped by the same character gives the same attack bonus/penalties and does the same damage (barring die roll results)...
Bulletproof_Condom 07-06-06, 07:41 AM	Sort of like a Danny Glover cosplayer?See, now I'm picturing Danny Glover showing up at a convention for cosplay, claiming to be cosplaying as Danny Glover.
Thorak 07-06-06, 07:46 AM	Cloud's sword is maybe 7 feet long, blade-wise. While that's bigger than a typical greatsword, it isn't as big as a typical Large greatsword, which would be in the 10 foot range. If you want to mimic Cloud, there is absolutely no reason why you'd want to go any further than Monkey Grip. A Huge Balanced Greatsword would be something like 20-25' long, three times as big as Cloud's sword. Not to mention the sheer logistics of a 6' tall humanoid wielding a 20' long weapon. Especially if, say, you're in a 15'x15' room, or trying to turn a corner in a 5' wide hallway.
Razieliffied 07-06-06, 07:54 AM	Large sized greatsword. 3d6 damage. I then gave cloud the monkeygrip feat, and 20 levels of fighter. He hits hard, and he kills things quickly.
babysamurai 07-06-06, 07:57 AM	Behold: http://worldofere.com/equipment/weapons.htm#daizaku Daizaku Two-handed, exotic melee 2d6 18-20x2 slashing -- 500gp I'm sure you're aware that that exact weapon already exists in a 3.5 WotC book. Planar Handbook - Jovar.
Esponer 07-06-06, 08:07 AM	I'm sure you're aware that that exact weapon already exists in a 3.5 WotC book. Planar Handbook - Jovar. Is that some sort of problem? You shouldn't need to have to buy the Planar Handbook to use a weapon of that configuration. My DM and I have come to the conclusion that Cloud's sword was made of either mithral or some other weird, futuristic alloy, which let him (and a large number of other characters in that game) wield such weapons quite easily. That's a reasonable assumption, although unfortunately one of Cloud's weapons is a Mythril Sabre, and other weapons he uses at time reveal their material (Diamond Sword, as I recall). I take the same stance as Count Arioch - Cloud's sword was large to make it look better in the game. I also strongly support Thorak's view. The Buster Sword, the Ultima Weapon, Sephiroth's Masamune and the First Tsurugi, are all a little bit larger than you ever really need, and it's a little silly that characters wield weapons like that. However, these weapons also aren't as huge as some people think. (The buster sword was about five feet long - not a large or huge weapon.) It's irritating when people try to stack Powerful Build and Monkey Grip, not realising how stupid a result they would get even if they did stack.
Rulebook 07-06-06, 08:17 AM	im gonna take Thoraks stuff and go sideways (a little) with it. large greatsword works well, heres why: large greatswords are like 10' long right? but clouds sword is shorter, but signifigantly wider than a large greatsword. all the long mass went wide or something. so it stands to reason that cloud's sword is just an oddly shaped large greatsword (possibly weighing a little more, i dont care). saavy?
babysamurai 07-06-06, 08:37 AM	Is that some sort of problem? You shouldn't need to have to buy the Planar Handbook to use a weapon of that configuration. No. I never said it was a problem. Relax, chief.
Thorak 07-06-06, 11:22 AM	im gonna take Thoraks stuff and go sideways (a little) with it. large greatsword works well, heres why: large greatswords are like 10' long right? but clouds sword is shorter, but signifigantly wider than a large greatsword. all the long mass went wide or something. so it stands to reason that cloud's sword is just an oddly shaped large greatsword (possibly weighing a little more, i dont care). saavy? I don't have a problem with this. I'm exaggerating slightly in an attempt to force some rational thought at the "I want to be Cloud, so I need a Huge Greatsword or bigger!" crowd. Cloud's sword is at most a Large Greatsword. So you've got Monkey Grip and Powerful Build (being in Soldier may be, in D&D terms, a template that grants this, since all Soldiers seem a bit boosted in power in many ways). Anything beyond this is pure munchkin overkill.
JayDubya 07-06-06, 11:34 AM	I don't have a problem with this. I'm exaggerating slightly in an attempt to force some rational thought at the "I want to be Cloud, so I need a Huge Greatsword or bigger!" crowd. Cloud's sword is at most a Large Greatsword. So you've got Monkey Grip and Powerful Build (being in Soldier may be, in D&D terms, a template that grants this, since all Soldiers seem a bit boosted in power in many ways). Anything beyond this is pure munchkin overkill. Yeah, I'm okay with describing Cloud as a Human with the template "Mako-infusion" that grants a boost to strength, and powerful build... and insanity, amnesia, and the ability to be pulled like a puppet on a string by the guy with the "Jenova's Son" template. :devil: It's perhaps a little smaller than a Large Greatsword, but without getting too technical, it looks like something about the size / weight that a Goliath would wield with two hands. I don't see a problem with a stat bump and powerful build for the low low price of a million spacebucks. Err, +2 ECL. P.S.: "Heeeeey all you Fighters! Come to Cloud McStrife's Sword Emporium! We're omnislashing prices every day!"
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-06-06, 02:27 PM	Not to mention the sheer logistics of a 6' tall humanoid wielding a 20' long weapon. Especially if, say, you're in a 15'x15' room, or trying to turn a corner in a 5' wide hallway. What about the Minotaur (MM version), who takes up a 10' square and can still attack with his battle axe with 10' reach *and* if he has the feat can do a whirlwind attack? The amount of warp in timespace in 3.5 is substancial anyway to aid in playability. Hell, the Magnicicent Seven can't ride abreast into a canyon that's less than 70' across at the base, but a 50' long snake (Huge) only takes up a 15' square when moving.
Thorak 07-06-06, 04:06 PM	What about the Minotaur (MM version), who takes up a 10' square and can still attack with his battle axe with 10' reach *and* if he has the feat can do a whirlwind attack? Same difference. He takes up a 10' square because he's just over the point where D&D says a 5' square isn't enough. He doesn't fill the whole thing, but he needs it to move properly, a 5' area would be a tight fit. Not seeing any logical problem with the rest, either. Obviously, if he's in a 15'x15' room, he only threatens that space; D&D denies him the ability to attack through the walls by invoking cover rules, despite his reach. The amount of warp in timespace in 3.5 is substancial anyway to aid in playability. Oh, I agree. I'm just saying, if I were DMing, and some PC wanted a 20' long sword, I'm going to make some houserule to punish him for being ridiculous, even at the expense of playability. Because I'm trying to make it unplayable. I've got no problem with Monkey Grip or Powerful Build, or using overlarge weapons in general, just when you start stacking multiple instances of it. A 10' long sword is cool. A 20' long sword is ridiculous. How do you even sheathe it? Hell, the Magnicicent Seven can't ride abreast into a canyon that's less than 70' across at the base, but a 50' long snake (Huge) only takes up a 15' square when moving. My point is that a 20' long sword in no way causing problems while taking it down a narrow, twisty corridor is just as ridiculous as these examples. The rules aren't perfect. Which is why you should houserule to get rid of silly stuff.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-06-06, 04:26 PM	Obviously, if he's in a 15'x15' room, he only threatens that space; D&D denies him the ability to attack through the walls by invoking cover rules, despite his reach. Make that axe adamantine and those walls won't be a problem very long. I'm just saying, if I were DMing, and some PC wanted a 20' long sword, I'm going to make some houserule to punish him for being ridiculous, even at the expense of playability. Because I'm trying to make it unplayable. Not really your job, man. Just say 'no' to it and move on. Punishing players is a bit... jerkwad. I've got no problem with Monkey Grip or Powerful Build, or using overlarge weapons in general, just when you start stacking multiple instances of it. A 10' long sword is cool. A 20' long sword is ridiculous. How do you even sheathe it? I don't think anyone here's talking abe a 20' sword besides you. The Buster Sword is probably 6' long, tip to pommel, but 2' wide. Its over sized by width and wieght, not by length. My point is that a 20' long sword in no way causing problems while taking it down a narrow, twisty corridor is just as ridiculous as these examples. The rules aren't perfect. Which is why you should houserule to get rid of silly stuff. 10' poles are standard adventuing gear, shouldn't you arbitrarily punish anyone using one of those too? Besides, there's nothing to houserule, squeezing is in the books. Also, NOTHING is as ridiculous as the Huge snake thing. I understand the 'we're too lazy to make facing rules' thing, but long creatures DO NOT ROLL into battle.
GhostStepper 07-06-06, 05:07 PM	Also, NOTHING is as ridiculous as the Huge snake thing. I understand the 'we're too lazy to make facing rules' thing, but long creatures DO NOT ROLL into battle. LOL So true! My players talk that trash when i break out the Huge crocodiles that are supposed to be like 20' long and somehow take up a 15' x 15' space. And snakes...yeah, its only 20' long but has issues squeezing through 10' wide corridoors. Thats versimilitude for you.
ShinAkuma2 07-06-06, 06:31 PM	Hell, the Magnicicent Seven can't ride abreast into a canyon that's less than 70' across at the base, but a 50' long snake (Huge) only takes up a 15' square when moving. To be fair, that only applies during combat, because you can't really fight when you are right on top of each other. Outside of combat, you don't need that much clearance, and people can share squares.
Thorak 07-06-06, 08:53 PM	Not really your job, man. Just say 'no' to it and move on. Punishing players is a bit... jerkwad. Let me rephrase. I'd say "Well, I think that's a bit ridiculous because of X, Y, and Z. So if you run into a situation where those'll be a factor, bear in mind I'll bring it up. No swinging it around in small rooms." They then can either rethink, and be happy with a more realistic weapon, or go nuts but forewarned that it won't all be fun happy time. It's the same kind of "punishing" I do to someone who plays a Drow and starts threatening villagers for no good reason. They've got no room to complain when the village becomes a mob out for their blood. I don't think anyone here's talking abe a 20' sword besides you. The Buster Sword is probably 6' long, tip to pommel, but 2' wide. Its over sized by width and wieght, not by length. I already stated I didn't think Cloud's sword was any bigger than a large greatsword, at best, and that I was perfectly fine with large greatswords. My issues are with people who don't think Monkey Gripping a large two-hander is big enough. 10' poles are standard adventuing gear, shouldn't you arbitrarily punish anyone using one of those too? I do. "Okay, so I'm going to squeeze down that narrow tunnel." "Uhm, dude, there's a 10' pole strapped to your pack." "Oh, right. Well, here, hold it for a sec and see if you can pass it through." Same reason you can't fit a 4' wide chest in your backpack, and aren't fitting a 10' tall 10' wide statue out the 5' wide door. Besides, there's nothing to houserule, squeezing is in the books. There are no squeezing rules for items. A Huge two-hander is size Huge, as an item. If you really want to try and apply them, any time the character walks through a hallway less than 15' wide, he has to squeeze. But squeezing works off character, not item, size, and applies only to creatures. Also, NOTHING is as ridiculous as the Huge snake thing. I understand the 'we're too lazy to make facing rules' thing, but long creatures DO NOT ROLL into battle. See? Something to houserule.
king12341234 07-06-06, 10:48 PM	Cloud's sword is maybe 7 feet long, blade-wise. While that's bigger than a typical greatsword, it isn't as big as a typical Large greatsword, which would be in the 10 foot range. If you want to mimic Cloud, there is absolutely no reason why you'd want to go any further than Monkey Grip. A Huge Balanced Greatsword would be something like 20-25' long, three times as big as Cloud's sword. Not to mention the sheer logistics of a 6' tall humanoid wielding a 20' long weapon. Especially if, say, you're in a 15'x15' room, or trying to turn a corner in a 5' wide hallway. This reminds me of a character my friend made a halfling with monkeys grip and a full blade. a three foot halfing wielding a 7ft blade. and as for the Huge Greatsword you can use it for cover like a enormous multiple person tower shield
babysamurai 07-07-06, 04:35 AM	Also, NOTHING is as ridiculous as the Huge snake thing. I understand the 'we're too lazy to make facing rules' thing, Actually, there are facing rules in Unearthed Arcana.
MinuetofElves 07-07-06, 11:31 AM	In dealing with Cloud's Sword(s) there are 6 individual swords you need 7 different damages(4 individual sword damages and 3 combined sword damages) Go Here (http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/415/bustersix5kz.jpg) Look at the bottom pictures, 7 different type of swords... If you are going the easy way though just do something like this: Buster Blade (One complete sword, not FF7 Advent Children Sword) Two-handed, exotic melee 2d10(?) x3 slashing and piercing -- XX gp If you could create the 7 damages, that would be extremly cool
scienceman47 07-07-06, 04:13 PM	Also, NOTHING is as ridiculous as the Huge snake thing. I understand the 'we're too lazy to make facing rules' thing, but long creatures DO NOT ROLL into battle. If I make a campaign, snakes of huge size will always be spherical, They sorta wad themselves up like a ball of yarn. Tigers come to play with them, but the snake eats them instead. And the ouroboros, not to be outdone by normal snakes, will take the form of a penrose triangle. Oh, and you probably should take penalties for weilding a sword of that size, unless your on an open field or other place that allows the most unrestricted of movement. BTW, did anyone watch ruroni kenshin?
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-07-06, 04:59 PM	Oh, and you probably should take penalties for weilding a sword of that size, unless your on an open field or other place that allows the most unrestricted of movement. BTW, did anyone watch ruroni kenshin? DnD does not penalize you for your weapon based on space. Unless you're using a reach weapon. The designers don't understand them, so all must suffer thourgh everything suddenly becoming pikes.
petpetshoy 07-17-06, 02:32 AM	you guys really are stupid when you start thinking the fullblade wouldv been close to right it may count as a large weapon but its just as wide as a medium greatsword the only difference is its 18 inches longer clouds blade was disgustingly wide, the fullblade matches length all you need is width. :P
WalkenDude 07-17-06, 03:14 AM	If I was your DM I'd make you an exotic weapon feat and another feat to use it right, something to let you use a huge weapon as a large weapon(but two handed only.) But I'd let you use it for cover.
Elessar 07-17-06, 03:32 AM	Cloud McStrife's swords! please!? Ayee, be ya confusin' 'im wi' Duncan McCloud, young laddy? :D So you've got Monkey Grip and Powerful Build (being in Soldier may be, in D&D terms, a template that grants this, since all Soldiers seem a bit boosted in power in many ways). Anything beyond this is pure munchkin overkill. He wasn't in SOLDIER! Okay I'll shut up now.