Collapsible Longspear? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Collapsible Longspear? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thelon Fairblade
09-20-05, 11:50 AM A character in my campaign wants to purchase a longspear where the front section of it, equivalent to a halfspear, is all metal. The rest of the weapon is wooden, and easily removable/replaceable. if the wooden shaft is broken or sundered, the weapon is still usable as a balanced half-spear (i.e. no improvised weapon or unbalanced penalties).

How much would such a thing cost? My initial reaction was to call this special construction "masterwork" and leave it at that. No "masterwork +1 accuracy" bonus, just this special construction. His next question was "how much to replace the wooden handle?" I figured some small fee (small, compared to the 308 for a masterwork weapon), so I called it 8gp.

The player objected, saying for that, he could just bring extra longspears at 8gp each.

(We compromised on 80gp for a fully metal (alloy) longspear, then 300 for masterworking. Metal makes it less susceptible to being sundered.)
Duration_10_Rounds
09-20-05, 12:30 PM No, no, no.
A sunderered weapon is rendered useless, or an improvised weapon at best.
You cant have your players making all thier masterwork weapons sunder proof by making exotic 2 part weapons that when sundered just become smaller versions of that weapon it totaly negates sundering or at very best makes the weapon have 2 lots of hardness and hitpoints making sundering not worth while.

I would not alow it as its an obvious attempt to circumvent the sundering rules.
der_gogo
09-20-05, 12:37 PM I would make it an Exotic Weapon that has to be used via the Exotic Weapon Profiency Feat.

When sundering the weapon, the sunderer (?) has the choice of either attacking the metal part or the wooden one.
Tony Vargas
09-20-05, 01:46 PM A sundered weapon should not be useable exactly as a normal weapon. An all-metal shortspear wouldn't exactly be 'balanced' for use like a normal shortspear, anyway, and with a stub of wood of unpredictable length still attached, would be even less so. I'd agree the remains of a sundered spear would be an improvised weapon, at best, and, as the DM, you'd have to decide what sort of improvised weapon. A spear with the tip shorn off, for instance, is likely to count as an improvised quarterstaff (it'll likely be a little too long or short to be used exactly like one at no penalty, though, since a quarterstaff is cost 0 (meaning crafting time 0, and craft isn't trained-only), it shouldn't take much 'trimming' to render it a useable, normal quarterstaff), the tip, OTOH, might count as an improvised shortspear or even dagger, depending on how little shaft is left attached to it.

OTOH, I think there are seeds of reasonable ideas in your player's suggestion.

It should not be overly difficult to replace the broken shaft of a spear or other polearm. I'd make it a much easier check, requiring much less time than with a normal attempt to repair a weapon. If the player has spare poles already shaped and fitted to take the spearpoint, it should be much easier. The cost of the spares should be about that of the raw materials to repair a broken weapon (1/6th the cost of the weapon). If the spares are so carefully pre-fitted that they don't ever require a craft skill check from the person repairing them, I'd say the full cost of repairing the weapon (1/2), instead.

Adding metal to the end of a pole-arm to protect it from being cut through was not an unusual innovation. It would be fair to allow a reach pole-arm to have the last foot or two of the shaft below the blade 'reinforced,' gaining the hardness of the metal. This should only matter, though, if you let characters sunder reach weapons from a square threatened by that weapon, without actually threatening the reach wielder (something arguably not /technically/ allowed by the rules). If you do, then the 'armored' polearm would have a hardness of 10 vs sunder attempts made by non-reach enemies being threatened by it, and the usual 5 against sunder attempts made by enemies that can threaten it's wielder. The extra cost should be noticeable, since it's the metal portions of a polearm that account for most of the expense (remember how cheap staffs and 10' poles are) - I'd say half- to double the base cost of the normal weapon. Oh, and it'll be a little heavier (what's the difference in weight between a longspear and a 10' pole? - about that much heavier).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thelon Fairblade 09-20-05, 11:50 AM	A character in my campaign wants to purchase a longspear where the front section of it, equivalent to a halfspear, is all metal. The rest of the weapon is wooden, and easily removable/replaceable. if the wooden shaft is broken or sundered, the weapon is still usable as a balanced half-spear (i.e. no improvised weapon or unbalanced penalties). How much would such a thing cost? My initial reaction was to call this special construction "masterwork" and leave it at that. No "masterwork +1 accuracy" bonus, just this special construction. His next question was "how much to replace the wooden handle?" I figured some small fee (small, compared to the 308 for a masterwork weapon), so I called it 8gp. The player objected, saying for that, he could just bring extra longspears at 8gp each. (We compromised on 80gp for a fully metal (alloy) longspear, then 300 for masterworking. Metal makes it less susceptible to being sundered.)
Duration_10_Rounds 09-20-05, 12:30 PM	No, no, no. A sunderered weapon is rendered useless, or an improvised weapon at best. You cant have your players making all thier masterwork weapons sunder proof by making exotic 2 part weapons that when sundered just become smaller versions of that weapon it totaly negates sundering or at very best makes the weapon have 2 lots of hardness and hitpoints making sundering not worth while. I would not alow it as its an obvious attempt to circumvent the sundering rules.
der_gogo 09-20-05, 12:37 PM	I would make it an Exotic Weapon that has to be used via the Exotic Weapon Profiency Feat. When sundering the weapon, the sunderer (?) has the choice of either attacking the metal part or the wooden one.
Tony Vargas 09-20-05, 01:46 PM	A sundered weapon should not be useable exactly as a normal weapon. An all-metal shortspear wouldn't exactly be 'balanced' for use like a normal shortspear, anyway, and with a stub of wood of unpredictable length still attached, would be even less so. I'd agree the remains of a sundered spear would be an improvised weapon, at best, and, as the DM, you'd have to decide what sort of improvised weapon. A spear with the tip shorn off, for instance, is likely to count as an improvised quarterstaff (it'll likely be a little too long or short to be used exactly like one at no penalty, though, since a quarterstaff is cost 0 (meaning crafting time 0, and craft isn't trained-only), it shouldn't take much 'trimming' to render it a useable, normal quarterstaff), the tip, OTOH, might count as an improvised shortspear or even dagger, depending on how little shaft is left attached to it. OTOH, I think there are seeds of reasonable ideas in your player's suggestion. It should not be overly difficult to replace the broken shaft of a spear or other polearm. I'd make it a much easier check, requiring much less time than with a normal attempt to repair a weapon. If the player has spare poles already shaped and fitted to take the spearpoint, it should be much easier. The cost of the spares should be about that of the raw materials to repair a broken weapon (1/6th the cost of the weapon). If the spares are so carefully pre-fitted that they don't ever require a craft skill check from the person repairing them, I'd say the full cost of repairing the weapon (1/2), instead. Adding metal to the end of a pole-arm to protect it from being cut through was not an unusual innovation. It would be fair to allow a reach pole-arm to have the last foot or two of the shaft below the blade 'reinforced,' gaining the hardness of the metal. This should only matter, though, if you let characters sunder reach weapons from a square threatened by that weapon, without actually threatening the reach wielder (something arguably not /technically/ allowed by the rules). If you do, then the 'armored' polearm would have a hardness of 10 vs sunder attempts made by non-reach enemies being threatened by it, and the usual 5 against sunder attempts made by enemies that can threaten it's wielder. The extra cost should be noticeable, since it's the metal portions of a polearm that account for most of the expense (remember how cheap staffs and 10' poles are) - I'd say half- to double the base cost of the normal weapon. Oh, and it'll be a little heavier (what's the difference in weight between a longspear and a 10' pole? - about that much heavier).