Colored Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Colored Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger
01-13-05, 12:03 AM In many fantasy pictures and video games characters are depicted wearing armor that isn't a normal steel color. And I have a few questions regarding this manner.

1) Does armor with different colors have any historical basis or is it purely fictional?

2) What mudane ways could colored armor be created? EX: Painting

3) What magical ways could armor be colored? (AKA How)

This of course also applies to weapons and other mudane items as well.
Talmariel
01-13-05, 01:03 AM I know of a very famous painting of (I believe) Prince Edward "the Black" where he's in the midst of battle. Last I saw it, it was hanging in the New Orleans Museum of Art, but their website had nothing. My google skills seem to fail me, also. Suffice to say though, Edward's monicker was derived from his black armor, which fits a classic medieval idea of dull, dark steel. I couldn't tell you how one colors their armor, but it is historically possible. You might try starting another thread over at the d20 Historic board. Should be through the d20 System boards.
Sakaki22
01-13-05, 02:27 AM My characters usually have armor color portrayed the same way they have eye color, hair color, skin color (unless race deems a specific), taste in french cuisine, whatever, etc.; It's just character fluff that has no significance to the actual game.
Alchahest
01-13-05, 02:32 AM I'm not any sort of expert, but in hollywood usually the armour isn't coloured, but, particularly with knights, a tabard and/or cloak is worn over the armour with the knights heraldric colours and stuff.
Vharuck
01-13-05, 02:46 AM You can use a Prestidigitation spell to color armor. It may only last for an hour, though (DM's call).
q'afuu
01-13-05, 03:33 AM Aside from colouring the steel, it was not unheard of for ornate armour to be inlaid with other (precious) metals: gold and silver could give the armour colour.
oberyn
01-13-05, 03:35 AM enamel

they used to use enamel to color armor not usualy all over but you could. it sometimes got borken or cracked in combat though so they mostly used it for ceremonial sets.. they also had some sort of technique of folding color into the metal but i cant remember exactly how this was done.
Kintara
01-13-05, 03:38 AM Aside from colouring the steel, it was not unheard of for ornate armour to be inlaid with other (precious) metals: gold and silver could give the armour colour.And in D&D, that would include mithral, adamantine, dragon scales, and even stranger materials.
Thelon Fairblade
01-13-05, 08:47 AM Prestidigitation would be easiest. IF you've got the cash lying around for a suit of full plate, why not double the cost and get a permanent color enchantment.

Cantrip * Continuous = 0.5 * 1 * 2000 = 1000 gp to get your armor permanently colored.
Nimrud
01-13-05, 09:25 AM If you are looking beyond European armor, Japanese o-yoroi was often lacquered and bore various colours and designs.
Draco Strang
01-13-05, 09:38 AM Indeed, Prince Edward "The Black" let his maille deliberately darken to a flat, lusterless black color. This was done sheerly out of personal preference and a desire to gain a slight psychological edge against his opposition, as well as making him plainly distinguishable to his own troops.

Normally, maille would oxodize and turn a grey, and eventually black. Following this, it would eventually rust (though knights usually cleaned and maintained it before this stage). Today, galvanized wire is used to knit maille, and unless you leave the stuff lying in a puddle or something, it won't really rust on you.

As for plate and other types of armor, grease and paint were used to give it a desired, albeit temporary coloring. This was done so that knights in a group could identify each other in the heat of battle. Other signals (tying a ribbon to your left arm, wearing a certain colored surcoat or tabard, etc..) were used as well.

The munitions armor (3/4 plate) commissioned during the Renaissance by Henry VIII of England for his mounted calvary was black. I forget the reasoning and techniques, but I've seen several examples, and know it exists.

Leather armor, and any coat of plates that had a leather covering could be commissioned in any color desired with the use of a dye vat, if so desired.

Any other questions?
sylvanwolf
01-13-05, 09:50 AM There is a famous austrian set (don't remember the name of the collection) where the armor is covered in small dragonesque heads mostly at the joints. the mouths of the beasts are colored red. the mass of the armor is a swirling floral and leaf pattern of high polished steel and gloss black. although i belive this to be parade armor it is a historical piece.

lots of armor is black from the smithing process and it is quite the process to polish this out, thus lots of people didn't.

you can also heat steels to low temperaturs (400-500 degrees F) and they will take on a thin oxide layer that is a myriad of blues and purples, the down side is that this is a tempering process. i.e. it makes it softer.

various types of chemical baths can give steel durable coats mostly nitrate and oxide compounds these can range in color from blue to black with the nitrates and red, orange and brown with the oxides. these coats would hold up to just about everything but combat damage. but then no surface treatment of steel or any metal i can think of would hold up to that kind of abuse.

those are the mundae color treatments for steel i can think of off the top of my head.

a magical one i think would be cool is to enchant it with a speel that would grant it chomeolan<sp?> color shifting ability. should at least give you a curcumstance bouns to hide checks.
P33KAJ3W
01-13-05, 12:00 PM I had a Gish and repainted his armor frequentluy....

Prestidigitation
tarkin
01-13-05, 03:24 PM Armor was used in parades and for "show/display" a lot. As such, a lot of that armor was heavily painted.

Sometimes, people painted complex pictures on the breastplate.

The problem with painting armor is the same with a speeder buying a red sports car: It attracts attention from the enemey.

Some kings had fancy looking armor, painted gold, but they would be a fool to use it in real combat because all the archers, etc. would aim for the moron in gold.
Kintara
01-13-05, 04:04 PM Fully armored knights on horseback are obvious targets anyway, so there's little reason to try to hide. In fact, the right "paint job" might help you to intimidate your opponents. But if you're the king and you charge into battle, then you might not want to advertise that fact. The same holds for the commanding officer or general.
Edymnion
01-13-05, 09:23 PM Yeah, I think Unearthed Arcana had some rules about recognizing famous opponents in battle, and modifiers based off it.

I mean, if someone is going up against "Vorg, the Indestructable Slayer of Men", you're a tad more likely to be nervous and a little afraid of him than you are of "Bob, from Accounting".
Vahenir
01-13-05, 09:34 PM I mean, if someone is going up against "Vorg, the Indestructable Slayer of Men", you're a tad more likely to be nervous and a little afraid of him than you are of "Bob, from Accounting".

I'm more likely to be afraid of the accountant.. he knows how to get me where it hurts....

Armour can be laquered a number of different colours - or painted. Paint wears off sooner than laquer, though. And mail can be made either bluish or black through oxidization.

But if you want to play with some realism - make a character who wants coloured armour (unless black or darkish blue) to have to pay every week to have it repainted.
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger
01-13-05, 11:48 PM Question: What is laquer?

And Edymnion, don't you know Accountant's are the the 3rd most evilest beings next to Insurance Salesmen and Lawyers? :D
Vahenir
01-13-05, 11:55 PM Sorry, it's lacquer.

Anyway:

"Any of various clear or colored synthetic coatings made by dissolving nitrocellulose or other cellulose derivatives together with plasticizers and pigments in a mixture of volatile solvents and used to impart a high gloss to surfaces."

"A glossy, resinous material, such as the exudation of the lacquer tree, used as a surface coating."
Rulebook
01-14-05, 12:14 AM you could also alloy the steel with other materials to give it a different color (though it might comprimise the strength of the metal. really depends on your knowledge of metalurgy and your ability to tell your dm it dosent matter for a D&D standpoint)

but really, prestidigitation? just paint the stuff, sheesh!
Callista
01-14-05, 12:32 AM Prestidigitation is easier because you don't have to repeatedly paint the armor--you can just stick a Permanence on it and pay that one-time cost, rather than worrying about maintaining painted or lacquered armor.

I can definitely see someone wanting to color their armor to blend in with the surroundings--for example, green in a forest--so as to be better at ambushing things. Or you might want to display, say, your deity's holy symbol or family crest or country's colors. I like the idea... I'd be giving a few points extra for RP if anyone in my group tried that idea.

But, as a DM, I'd be giving you *negative* modifiers if you decided to color it something crazily bright. That's (usually) just asking for trouble.
Bartleby_GoC
01-14-05, 01:51 PM I have a link to a chainmaille producer who uses a variety of colors in his work. The site is commercial, but it also has some great information on various weaves and metals used to get specific results. There are lots of pictures including a couple of banners with a design woven in (NOT dyed or painted!). I'm not going to post the link here, as I have no interest in breaking the CoC. If you want it, send me an e-mail. It's a great resource, and the only connection I have to is is as a customer.

Bartleby

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 01-13-05, 12:03 AM	In many fantasy pictures and video games characters are depicted wearing armor that isn't a normal steel color. And I have a few questions regarding this manner. 1) Does armor with different colors have any historical basis or is it purely fictional? 2) What mudane ways could colored armor be created? EX: Painting 3) What magical ways could armor be colored? (AKA How) This of course also applies to weapons and other mudane items as well.
Talmariel 01-13-05, 01:03 AM	I know of a very famous painting of (I believe) Prince Edward "the Black" where he's in the midst of battle. Last I saw it, it was hanging in the New Orleans Museum of Art, but their website had nothing. My google skills seem to fail me, also. Suffice to say though, Edward's monicker was derived from his black armor, which fits a classic medieval idea of dull, dark steel. I couldn't tell you how one colors their armor, but it is historically possible. You might try starting another thread over at the d20 Historic board. Should be through the d20 System boards.
Sakaki22 01-13-05, 02:27 AM	My characters usually have armor color portrayed the same way they have eye color, hair color, skin color (unless race deems a specific), taste in french cuisine, whatever, etc.; It's just character fluff that has no significance to the actual game.
Alchahest 01-13-05, 02:32 AM	I'm not any sort of expert, but in hollywood usually the armour isn't coloured, but, particularly with knights, a tabard and/or cloak is worn over the armour with the knights heraldric colours and stuff.
Vharuck 01-13-05, 02:46 AM	You can use a Prestidigitation spell to color armor. It may only last for an hour, though (DM's call).
q'afuu 01-13-05, 03:33 AM	Aside from colouring the steel, it was not unheard of for ornate armour to be inlaid with other (precious) metals: gold and silver could give the armour colour.
oberyn 01-13-05, 03:35 AM	enamel they used to use enamel to color armor not usualy all over but you could. it sometimes got borken or cracked in combat though so they mostly used it for ceremonial sets.. they also had some sort of technique of folding color into the metal but i cant remember exactly how this was done.
Kintara 01-13-05, 03:38 AM	Aside from colouring the steel, it was not unheard of for ornate armour to be inlaid with other (precious) metals: gold and silver could give the armour colour.And in D&D, that would include mithral, adamantine, dragon scales, and even stranger materials.
Thelon Fairblade 01-13-05, 08:47 AM	Prestidigitation would be easiest. IF you've got the cash lying around for a suit of full plate, why not double the cost and get a permanent color enchantment. Cantrip * Continuous = 0.5 * 1 * 2000 = 1000 gp to get your armor permanently colored.
Nimrud 01-13-05, 09:25 AM	If you are looking beyond European armor, Japanese o-yoroi was often lacquered and bore various colours and designs.
Draco Strang 01-13-05, 09:38 AM	Indeed, Prince Edward "The Black" let his maille deliberately darken to a flat, lusterless black color. This was done sheerly out of personal preference and a desire to gain a slight psychological edge against his opposition, as well as making him plainly distinguishable to his own troops. Normally, maille would oxodize and turn a grey, and eventually black. Following this, it would eventually rust (though knights usually cleaned and maintained it before this stage). Today, galvanized wire is used to knit maille, and unless you leave the stuff lying in a puddle or something, it won't really rust on you. As for plate and other types of armor, grease and paint were used to give it a desired, albeit temporary coloring. This was done so that knights in a group could identify each other in the heat of battle. Other signals (tying a ribbon to your left arm, wearing a certain colored surcoat or tabard, etc..) were used as well. The munitions armor (3/4 plate) commissioned during the Renaissance by Henry VIII of England for his mounted calvary was black. I forget the reasoning and techniques, but I've seen several examples, and know it exists. Leather armor, and any coat of plates that had a leather covering could be commissioned in any color desired with the use of a dye vat, if so desired. Any other questions?
sylvanwolf 01-13-05, 09:50 AM	There is a famous austrian set (don't remember the name of the collection) where the armor is covered in small dragonesque heads mostly at the joints. the mouths of the beasts are colored red. the mass of the armor is a swirling floral and leaf pattern of high polished steel and gloss black. although i belive this to be parade armor it is a historical piece. lots of armor is black from the smithing process and it is quite the process to polish this out, thus lots of people didn't. you can also heat steels to low temperaturs (400-500 degrees F) and they will take on a thin oxide layer that is a myriad of blues and purples, the down side is that this is a tempering process. i.e. it makes it softer. various types of chemical baths can give steel durable coats mostly nitrate and oxide compounds these can range in color from blue to black with the nitrates and red, orange and brown with the oxides. these coats would hold up to just about everything but combat damage. but then no surface treatment of steel or any metal i can think of would hold up to that kind of abuse. those are the mundae color treatments for steel i can think of off the top of my head. a magical one i think would be cool is to enchant it with a speel that would grant it chomeolan<sp?> color shifting ability. should at least give you a curcumstance bouns to hide checks.
P33KAJ3W 01-13-05, 12:00 PM	I had a Gish and repainted his armor frequentluy.... Prestidigitation
tarkin 01-13-05, 03:24 PM	Armor was used in parades and for "show/display" a lot. As such, a lot of that armor was heavily painted. Sometimes, people painted complex pictures on the breastplate. The problem with painting armor is the same with a speeder buying a red sports car: It attracts attention from the enemey. Some kings had fancy looking armor, painted gold, but they would be a fool to use it in real combat because all the archers, etc. would aim for the moron in gold.
Kintara 01-13-05, 04:04 PM	Fully armored knights on horseback are obvious targets anyway, so there's little reason to try to hide. In fact, the right "paint job" might help you to intimidate your opponents. But if you're the king and you charge into battle, then you might not want to advertise that fact. The same holds for the commanding officer or general.
Edymnion 01-13-05, 09:23 PM	Yeah, I think Unearthed Arcana had some rules about recognizing famous opponents in battle, and modifiers based off it. I mean, if someone is going up against "Vorg, the Indestructable Slayer of Men", you're a tad more likely to be nervous and a little afraid of him than you are of "Bob, from Accounting".
Vahenir 01-13-05, 09:34 PM	I mean, if someone is going up against "Vorg, the Indestructable Slayer of Men", you're a tad more likely to be nervous and a little afraid of him than you are of "Bob, from Accounting". I'm more likely to be afraid of the accountant.. he knows how to get me where it hurts.... Armour can be laquered a number of different colours - or painted. Paint wears off sooner than laquer, though. And mail can be made either bluish or black through oxidization. But if you want to play with some realism - make a character who wants coloured armour (unless black or darkish blue) to have to pay every week to have it repainted.
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 01-13-05, 11:48 PM	Question: What is laquer? And Edymnion, don't you know Accountant's are the the 3rd most evilest beings next to Insurance Salesmen and Lawyers? :D
Vahenir 01-13-05, 11:55 PM	Sorry, it's lacquer. Anyway: "Any of various clear or colored synthetic coatings made by dissolving nitrocellulose or other cellulose derivatives together with plasticizers and pigments in a mixture of volatile solvents and used to impart a high gloss to surfaces." "A glossy, resinous material, such as the exudation of the lacquer tree, used as a surface coating."
Rulebook 01-14-05, 12:14 AM	you could also alloy the steel with other materials to give it a different color (though it might comprimise the strength of the metal. really depends on your knowledge of metalurgy and your ability to tell your dm it dosent matter for a D&D standpoint) but really, prestidigitation? just paint the stuff, sheesh!
Callista 01-14-05, 12:32 AM	Prestidigitation is easier because you don't have to repeatedly paint the armor--you can just stick a Permanence on it and pay that one-time cost, rather than worrying about maintaining painted or lacquered armor. I can definitely see someone wanting to color their armor to blend in with the surroundings--for example, green in a forest--so as to be better at ambushing things. Or you might want to display, say, your deity's holy symbol or family crest or country's colors. I like the idea... I'd be giving a few points extra for RP if anyone in my group tried that idea. But, as a DM, I'd be giving you negative modifiers if you decided to color it something crazily bright. That's (usually) just asking for trouble.
Bartleby_GoC 01-14-05, 01:51 PM	I have a link to a chainmaille producer who uses a variety of colors in his work. The site is commercial, but it also has some great information on various weaves and metals used to get specific results. There are lots of pictures including a couple of banners with a design woven in (NOT dyed or painted!). I'm not going to post the link here, as I have no interest in breaking the CoC. If you want it, send me an e-mail. It's a great resource, and the only connection I have to is is as a customer. Bartleby