Combat brute and sundering cleave query [Archive] - Wizards Community

Combat brute and sundering cleave query [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
prototype00
05-30-05, 09:18 PM Sundering Cleave: To use this maneuver, you must destroy a foe's weapon or shield with a successful sunder attempt (see page 158 of the Player's Handbook). If you do so, you gain an immediate additional melee attack against the foe. The additional attack is with the same weapon and at the same attack bonus as the attack that destroyed the weapon or shield.

Now, knowing the propensity for combatants to optimize their combat potential by either using a shield and a weapon or TWF, would it be reasonable for a person with the combat brute feat to charge and then:

Sunder (Long Sword), Sunder (Shield, dagger, buckler), melee attack

I have checked the SRD, and sunder attempts are considered attacks, and since they are delivered in Melee, they are melee attacks. So could a Combat Brute sunder an object, use the immediate additional melee attack for another sunder and if he/she/it succeeds there immediately attack the foe as per the description?

Thanks.
masterofmayhem
05-30-05, 09:20 PM Yes, I'm pretty sure you can do that.
dragonseth
05-30-05, 09:49 PM Idunno. It says the attack is against the foe. Is sundering their armor an attack against the foe or their equipment?
player2
05-30-05, 09:54 PM Sundering Cleave: To use this maneuver, you must destroy a foe's weapon or shield with a successful sunder attempt
so you must attack the weapon or sheild, not his belt or the can on the side of the road.
Crispy_Spellthief
05-31-05, 12:59 AM Personally, I don't see any reason you couldn't get away with it.. after all, the feat doesn't explicitly state that it isn't doable.

Though if you look it over, Combat Brute is a dangerous feat to use, especially in conjunction with Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, and a large BAB. Imagine, a round full of sundering cleaves (first attack destroys armor, second attack sunders shield, sundering cleave destroys weapon, new cleave hits unarmed enemy, since it doesn't say you're limited to only one use of the feat option) backed up by a -5 Power Attack Sunder attempt, all fueled by a successful Bull Rush bonus to all attacks thanks to a previous round's BR attempt. Then, if the fool hasn't run away, or is stopped thanks to flanking or spells, finish him off with extra damage multiplied from your -5 Power Attack from the last round.. We're talking mega ouchies, even more so if ya have a double weapon..
jaerad
05-31-05, 05:15 AM "first attack destroys armor"

You can't sunder armor a person is wearing. Armor is only sunderable when it's like, on a rack or animated or something.

Combine with Imp. Trip for more fun. Not to mention Leap Attack. Leap in, sunder shield, sunder weapon, trip, wack. All attacks get the bonuses to damage from Leap Attack, and you can Shock Trooper the penalties from to hit to AC. Another option is to use Combat Brute instead of Leap Attack - charge first round and bull rush them a ways, next round gets Advancing Blows and Momentum Swing (IIRC).
prototype00
05-31-05, 05:44 AM Well, thank you Ladies and Gentlemen, it seems that popular consensus has it that you can use Combat Brute in the manner I described.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Adamantine warhammer weilding Hammer of Moradin to equip.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
prototype00 05-30-05, 09:18 PM	Sundering Cleave: To use this maneuver, you must destroy a foe's weapon or shield with a successful sunder attempt (see page 158 of the Player's Handbook). If you do so, you gain an immediate additional melee attack against the foe. The additional attack is with the same weapon and at the same attack bonus as the attack that destroyed the weapon or shield. Now, knowing the propensity for combatants to optimize their combat potential by either using a shield and a weapon or TWF, would it be reasonable for a person with the combat brute feat to charge and then: Sunder (Long Sword), Sunder (Shield, dagger, buckler), melee attack I have checked the SRD, and sunder attempts are considered attacks, and since they are delivered in Melee, they are melee attacks. So could a Combat Brute sunder an object, use the immediate additional melee attack for another sunder and if he/she/it succeeds there immediately attack the foe as per the description? Thanks.
masterofmayhem 05-30-05, 09:20 PM	Yes, I'm pretty sure you can do that.
dragonseth 05-30-05, 09:49 PM	Idunno. It says the attack is against the foe. Is sundering their armor an attack against the foe or their equipment?
player2 05-30-05, 09:54 PM	Sundering Cleave: To use this maneuver, you must destroy a foe's weapon or shield with a successful sunder attempt so you must attack the weapon or sheild, not his belt or the can on the side of the road.
Crispy_Spellthief 05-31-05, 12:59 AM	Personally, I don't see any reason you couldn't get away with it.. after all, the feat doesn't explicitly state that it isn't doable. Though if you look it over, Combat Brute is a dangerous feat to use, especially in conjunction with Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, and a large BAB. Imagine, a round full of sundering cleaves (first attack destroys armor, second attack sunders shield, sundering cleave destroys weapon, new cleave hits unarmed enemy, since it doesn't say you're limited to only one use of the feat option) backed up by a -5 Power Attack Sunder attempt, all fueled by a successful Bull Rush bonus to all attacks thanks to a previous round's BR attempt. Then, if the fool hasn't run away, or is stopped thanks to flanking or spells, finish him off with extra damage multiplied from your -5 Power Attack from the last round.. We're talking mega ouchies, even more so if ya have a double weapon..
jaerad 05-31-05, 05:15 AM	"first attack destroys armor" You can't sunder armor a person is wearing. Armor is only sunderable when it's like, on a rack or animated or something. Combine with Imp. Trip for more fun. Not to mention Leap Attack. Leap in, sunder shield, sunder weapon, trip, wack. All attacks get the bonuses to damage from Leap Attack, and you can Shock Trooper the penalties from to hit to AC. Another option is to use Combat Brute instead of Leap Attack - charge first round and bull rush them a ways, next round gets Advancing Blows and Momentum Swing (IIRC).
prototype00 05-31-05, 05:44 AM	Well, thank you Ladies and Gentlemen, it seems that popular consensus has it that you can use Combat Brute in the manner I described. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Adamantine warhammer weilding Hammer of Moradin to equip.