Combat Expertise with Power Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Combat Expertise with Power Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dracox
09-10-05, 10:16 PM Can you use Combat Expertise with Power attack?

Both feats say that you take a minus from your maximum BAB and apply it to your AC or damage (a max of -5 from your BAB for CE and no limit for power attack).

So here is my questions;

First, I have a +5 BAB (5th level fighter) with CE and PA. If I was going to apply both feats do I have only the +5 to play with once or do I use the +5 for each feat?

So example 1; I have the fighter make an attack using -3 to attack adding +3 to AC. That leaves +2 BAB left and I add that to his damage for his weapon. Now his attack is at -5 with +3 to AC and +2 to damage.

Example 2; I have the fighter make an attack using -3 to attack adding +3 to his AC. Now I apply the Power Attack feat and decide to go with all +5 to damage adding another -5 to attack. Now his over all negative on his attack roll is -8.

What do you think? Which one would you go with? I have an idea but I want to see what everyone else thinks.

Now to the next stage of this; level 6 for a fighter who get now an extra attack at +1. So now his BAB is +6/+1. For CE this is pretty straight forward, I can only put a max of +5 to AC for a -5 to attack BUT if I am using the full round action to do 2 attacks does that penalty apply to both attacks?

Example 1; I use max -5 BAB to apply to AC +5. I have two attacks, are both at -5? So basically does my BAB turn into +1/-4? If that is the case then CE goes from cool with one attack to a major SUCK for multiple attacks! I guess you have to bite the bullet if that is the case.

Last thing I have now is PA with a BAB of +6/+1. Is the number I can apply to my extra damage +6 or +7 (+6/+1 BAB = +7 BAB)?

And then of course you can see where I am going next with this; Multiple attacks with with both CE and PA... Depending on the rulings I see here I think I could figure that out but any suggestions would be cool and a help.

I searched the threads for something similar and didn't see one but if I am wrong and you have a link please provide it and I will take a look. I also looked in the latest FAQ and didn't see anything like this presented. I guess I must be a sick person coming up with some of these feat combinations but I have to be a pain in the rear for my DM sometimes! After all he killed 2 of my characters before this Warforged Figher so what is a player to do? heh heh

Thanks a lot and I look forward to your ideas/suggestions,
Dracox
Salla
09-10-05, 10:21 PM You can use both simultaneously; the penalties stack. Both are limited by your BAB, but neither actually subtracts for your BAB (for instance, you don't lose iterative attacks through the use of either).

So, if you had a BAB of +4, you could take a -4 to hit to gain a +4 to your AC, as well as a -4 to hit to gain +4 to damage, resulting in a -8 to hit (good frackin' luck!).

When you use either Power Attack or Combat Expertise, the penalty to attack rolls applies to all attacks you make during the round; all of your regular attacks, PLUS any attacks of opportunity you may make before your next turn. Same with a Monk's Flurry of Blows.
DM Zoc
09-10-05, 10:33 PM Let's imagine you have a BAB of +8 and no other bonuses to hit.

Your normal full attack would be +8/+3.
You could combat expertise for five, giving you +3/-2.
And power attack for eight, giving you two attacks, one at -5 and one at -10.
dracox
09-10-05, 10:44 PM Awesome! Thank you for your thoughts on this. I am sure somewhere I read that multiple penalties to your attack number stack somewhere but I couldn't find it again.

One neat thing that I have going for my fighter is a 18 Str: +4 to hit, a +1 spiked chain and usually a bless from the cleric to the tune of +1 to hit so even with the good frink'n luck of -8 to hit I can still have a +6 to make it an over all -2 to hit.

I will stay that I don't like the fact that your negatives apply to ALL of your attacks but I'll live with it. :) I think it would make a little more sense that the penalties apply to only your first or highest BAB attack but I am sure "they" have a reason for it.... "They" always do... :)

Thanks for the info.
Dracox
StevenO
09-11-05, 01:01 AM The penalties from each feat stack and don't prevent using the other to full benefit.

A scary idea is that a fighter 20 with Power attack and Improved Combat Expertise (no cap) could take -20 to power each ability. The full attack before other bonuses is -20/-25/-30/-35 gaining +20 AC and +40 damage (two handed weapon). It may not hit anything normally but a nat 20 still hits under standard rules. If you need a nat 20 (or close) to hit anyway you might as well go for broke.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dracox 09-10-05, 10:16 PM	Can you use Combat Expertise with Power attack? Both feats say that you take a minus from your maximum BAB and apply it to your AC or damage (a max of -5 from your BAB for CE and no limit for power attack). So here is my questions; First, I have a +5 BAB (5th level fighter) with CE and PA. If I was going to apply both feats do I have only the +5 to play with once or do I use the +5 for each feat? So example 1; I have the fighter make an attack using -3 to attack adding +3 to AC. That leaves +2 BAB left and I add that to his damage for his weapon. Now his attack is at -5 with +3 to AC and +2 to damage. Example 2; I have the fighter make an attack using -3 to attack adding +3 to his AC. Now I apply the Power Attack feat and decide to go with all +5 to damage adding another -5 to attack. Now his over all negative on his attack roll is -8. What do you think? Which one would you go with? I have an idea but I want to see what everyone else thinks. Now to the next stage of this; level 6 for a fighter who get now an extra attack at +1. So now his BAB is +6/+1. For CE this is pretty straight forward, I can only put a max of +5 to AC for a -5 to attack BUT if I am using the full round action to do 2 attacks does that penalty apply to both attacks? Example 1; I use max -5 BAB to apply to AC +5. I have two attacks, are both at -5? So basically does my BAB turn into +1/-4? If that is the case then CE goes from cool with one attack to a major SUCK for multiple attacks! I guess you have to bite the bullet if that is the case. Last thing I have now is PA with a BAB of +6/+1. Is the number I can apply to my extra damage +6 or +7 (+6/+1 BAB = +7 BAB)? And then of course you can see where I am going next with this; Multiple attacks with with both CE and PA... Depending on the rulings I see here I think I could figure that out but any suggestions would be cool and a help. I searched the threads for something similar and didn't see one but if I am wrong and you have a link please provide it and I will take a look. I also looked in the latest FAQ and didn't see anything like this presented. I guess I must be a sick person coming up with some of these feat combinations but I have to be a pain in the rear for my DM sometimes! After all he killed 2 of my characters before this Warforged Figher so what is a player to do? heh heh Thanks a lot and I look forward to your ideas/suggestions, Dracox
Salla 09-10-05, 10:21 PM	You can use both simultaneously; the penalties stack. Both are limited by your BAB, but neither actually subtracts for your BAB (for instance, you don't lose iterative attacks through the use of either). So, if you had a BAB of +4, you could take a -4 to hit to gain a +4 to your AC, as well as a -4 to hit to gain +4 to damage, resulting in a -8 to hit (good frackin' luck!). When you use either Power Attack or Combat Expertise, the penalty to attack rolls applies to all attacks you make during the round; all of your regular attacks, PLUS any attacks of opportunity you may make before your next turn. Same with a Monk's Flurry of Blows.
DM Zoc 09-10-05, 10:33 PM	Let's imagine you have a BAB of +8 and no other bonuses to hit. Your normal full attack would be +8/+3. You could combat expertise for five, giving you +3/-2. And power attack for eight, giving you two attacks, one at -5 and one at -10.
dracox 09-10-05, 10:44 PM	Awesome! Thank you for your thoughts on this. I am sure somewhere I read that multiple penalties to your attack number stack somewhere but I couldn't find it again. One neat thing that I have going for my fighter is a 18 Str: +4 to hit, a +1 spiked chain and usually a bless from the cleric to the tune of +1 to hit so even with the good frink'n luck of -8 to hit I can still have a +6 to make it an over all -2 to hit. I will stay that I don't like the fact that your negatives apply to ALL of your attacks but I'll live with it. :) I think it would make a little more sense that the penalties apply to only your first or highest BAB attack but I am sure "they" have a reason for it.... "They" always do... :) Thanks for the info. Dracox
StevenO 09-11-05, 01:01 AM	The penalties from each feat stack and don't prevent using the other to full benefit. A scary idea is that a fighter 20 with Power attack and Improved Combat Expertise (no cap) could take -20 to power each ability. The full attack before other bonuses is -20/-25/-30/-35 gaining +20 AC and +40 damage (two handed weapon). It may not hit anything normally but a nat 20 still hits under standard rules. If you need a nat 20 (or close) to hit anyway you might as well go for broke.