Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rhuxley 10-08-05, 04:16 PM	I am the DM, and I would like to give a combat bonus for other combat formations, such as the pincer or somthing like this: (x's are the party, o's are enemies, -- is empty square, | is a wall) X1--X2 --O1-- --X3-- do you think all 3 should get flanking bonuses, the rules say nobody gets them in that case, but i disagree, 3 sides are much harder to defend from than 2. or should X1 and X2 get +1 while X3 gets +2 =========== |X1-- -- |O1X2-- |X3-- -- i think X1 and X3 get +3 and X2 gets +1 please help with other possible combat formations thank you all ronald
Mystyc 10-08-05, 04:17 PM	I'm pretty sure that the rules say X1 and X3 would both get the flanking bonus.
Rulebook 10-08-05, 04:25 PM	1 and 3 get them, the line through them passes between opposite sides of the enemies square. 2 and 3 do not. the line passes between the perpendicular, not paralell. i dont know where you get that nobody gets them from.
Rhuxley 10-08-05, 04:27 PM	try lookign again, i messed up the 1st time now check it out
Treetrip Danglefoot 10-08-05, 06:15 PM	It is an interesting concept though (sorry if I hijack the thread). But are there other formations that should allow bonuses to AC or attack? Maybe spearhead formations or solid defensive lines allowing bonuses? Just a thought.
Rulebook 10-08-05, 06:29 PM	under your new placement, nobody would get the flank. the second pic 1 and 3 get it, while the line on 2 dosent even go through the enemies square (well it touches a corner, but thats not the same)
Nom 10-08-05, 06:39 PM	try lookign again, i messed up the 1st time now check it outAargh! Please don't make substantive edits to posts after people have commented on them; it makes it impossible to follow the discussion. I agree that the triangle formation intuitively should grant flanking. However, it does make it a lot easier to generate a flanking bonus. I played it last campaign, and went back to RAW this one. In your second example, fighting with your back to a wall can often provide a defensive advantage (RL). The wall limits your opponents' ability to flank you and means that you can completely ignore needing to defend from that direction. The downside is that it reduces your ability to manoeuvre also. Thus, I'd be leery of increasing the flanking bonus when the victim has a wall to help protect them.
Plothos 10-09-05, 01:06 AM	It does intuitively seem (to me at least) as though once a guy is flanked then adding any further attackers is only going to make his job of defending himself harder. If the guy on your left makes it harder to defend the guy on your right, and vice versa, why does having guys on both sides not make it harder to defend against a guy coming from ahead? (I know there are no sides, because there's no facing, this is just a way of expressing the point.) However, intuition and D&D part ways all over the place. One reason to beware of making it easier to flank is it's going to make the rogue's job easier, which can only hurt game balance. It'll also favor the group with larger numbers, making for a bit of an imbalance in the CR ratings of encounters involving many enemies. I'm sure there are tons of other reasons not to mess with things. It makes sense on a mental-image-of-combat level, but in terms of gameplay I'd hesitate to alter the rules.
Rhuxley 10-09-05, 10:58 AM	While i concur about the rogues job being easier. There is no reason to believe that the party would not be fighting a rogue. And while it does favor large parties, the groups that the party fight are more often than not, larger groups than them. It seems like it would make thegame more difficult for the players as opposed to easier. Ron
Treetrip Danglefoot 10-09-05, 02:44 PM	After adding a certain number of people theres the advantage of groupthink and the fact that generally more than three people start to get int he way of each other against a single defender. I'd rather go against 4 people than 3 people in real life.