Combat Length [Archive] - Wizards Community

Combat Length [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darth_Azalin
06-05-06, 01:43 PM Ok Im having problems locating where it says something about fighting/combat length...

It used to be your Con scored was the measuring stick.. and after so many turns and/or hours you got fatigued then you were exhausted..

Because this has came up and I want to enforce the effects of long combat..

Anyone find such a thing?
Solian
06-05-06, 02:14 PM I've never found anything like it, but it would be a good house rule to enforce! if nobody else comes up with the actual rule, make it yourself and enforce it as a house rule.
Bulletproof_Condom
06-05-06, 02:22 PM No such rule in 3.5. Feel free to plug it in.

Just remember that certain actions (total defense, just moving, most skill checks) are not as strenuous as others.
Darth_Azalin
06-05-06, 02:57 PM Well I found it in Combat and Tactics

Basically its Hit Dice + Con modifier thats your fatigue points

anytime the character moves or attacks you check off 1 point.. when that total gets to zero.. you are fatigued..

you do it again but this time you take 2 points away.. then your exhausted..

then you have to take a break and make a roll vs paralyzation (would be fortitude) at a cumulative +1 for each round you rested (do nothing) also modified by your Constitution score.. and I would start DC at 15.. or even 20 doesnt seem overpowered...
SlagMortar
06-05-06, 03:40 PM Keep in mind that this will make anyone who relies on attacking (fighters, barbarians, etc) weaker in comparison, unless you add spellcasting to the list of actions that cause fatigue.

Also keep in mind that fatigue is part of what is represented as hit points.
Solian
06-05-06, 04:24 PM I would think that spellcasting, especially arcane, would take more because your using some of your own engery to cast a spell most of the time. though, with people who cast divine spells, it would be harder to figure out rules for it because they get their powers from other sources.
djinni
06-05-06, 04:55 PM I would think that spellcasting, especially arcane, would take more because your using some of your own engery to cast a spell most of the time. though, with people who cast divine spells, it would be harder to figure out rules for it because they get their powers from other sources.
in the DnD world you don't use part of your own energy unless you are a psion, you use the energies of magic which you shape into the spells etc....etc...
although casting a spell = 1 fatigue point per spell level, sounds good to me
malignor
06-05-06, 05:14 PM If your "length" changes in combat, I think you may need counselling.
ShinAkuma2
06-05-06, 05:32 PM If your "length" changes in combat, I think you may need counselling.

I regularly game with a girl who plays a top-heavy, chainmail bikini wearing barbarian. I would find it hard to NOT "change length" around her...if my character in that campaign weren't also female.

They do "get along" very well, though. Veeery well.
malignor
06-05-06, 05:55 PM I regularly game with a girl who plays a top-heavy, chainmail bikini wearing barbarian. I would find it hard to NOT "change length" around her...if my character in that campaign weren't also female.

They do "get along" very well, though. Veeery well.... the notion of a couple of "chicks in chainmail" characters getting all hot & sweaty in their little outfits is the one exception.

= = = =

Anyway, as for combat and stamina/endurance, I'd have to say that I can't find any rules for it. But I can tell you that combat is about as tiring as running (not jogging, I mean real running). Perhaps the rules could simply be adopted.
Inigo Carmine
06-05-06, 07:39 PM Well I found it in Combat and Tactics

Basically its Hit Dice + Con modifier thats your fatigue points

anytime the character moves or attacks you check off 1 point.. when that total gets to zero.. you are fatigued..

This makes your average lv 1 (and level 2 if I'm reading it right) character fatigued after a single round of combat. not very realistic.

Combat in D&D 3.5, while sometimes taking hours to resolve in the real world, tends to happen in 2-3 rounds in game. Even some of the longer, protracted battles I've been in (everyone has improved cover for +8 to AC and is fighting defensively) tend not to last more than about 5 rounds.

I think you're trying to create a rule for a situation that will only occur if you go significantly out of your way to induce (ie PCs fighting off 10,000 goblins in a 5-ft long corridor), and even then missing the mark severely. People should not be getting fatigued quickly.

Out and out sprinting gives you a minute before you start having to make checks to stop, and even a barbarian's rage (a state of advanced energy consumption that few are capable of to say the least) goes for 1 minute + con mod. It's been a long damn time since I've been in a "real" fight, but even in a more controlled situation, like aggressive sparring in martial arts, I can go a good 5-6 minutes before I notice any decline in my performance. I wouldn't consider myself to be much above if even at all above average constitution.
Sunrider
06-05-06, 07:56 PM Such fatigue rules are difficult to implement becuase 'combat' covers so many different areas.

Some fights may be intense chopping matches that last two or three rounds. Others maybe be intense firefights between ranged forces lying prone and using cover, lasting much longer. Some could involve lightning raids by mounted archers on enemy positions, horses galloping past at high speed (double move or run) while the riders loose arrows as fast as they can. Others, yet, may involve a sniper using stealth and concealment to slowly pick apart an enemy force over time. And, finally, you have the situation of a duel between two snipers, which may consist of a game of cat-and-mouse lasting for hours.

Clearly the chopping match is the most physically (if not mentally) strenuous of the fights described yet, under the proposed rules, the duelling snipers are much more likely to become fatigued or exhausted (since 'combat' could last for hours, even though attacks it's mostly stalking rather than shooting).
Darth_Azalin
06-05-06, 07:56 PM This makes your average lv 1 (and level 2 if I'm reading it right) character fatigued after a single round of combat. not very realistic.

No I said Hit dice.. meaning Barbarians is 12, fighters 10, etc.. and then you add in your con modifer.. so if you were a wizard and your con gave you a -3.. yes walking 1 round would get you winded...

Combat in D&D 3.5, while sometimes taking hours to resolve in the real world, tends to happen in 2-3 rounds in game. Even some of the longer, protracted battles I've been in (everyone has improved cover for +8 to AC and is fighting defensively) tend not to last more than about 5 rounds.

The idea is you can't fight forever.. and I believe its easy enough to put in.. And I might even say spell casting is 1pt/lvl (even saying level 0 spells are 1 pt).. and to make the warlock even less powerful.. if he raises his blast from default.. it then is treated as a certain level.. (just like quicken spell-like ability and empower these costs go up) so will blasting the blast each round..

I think you're trying to create a rule for a situation that will only occur if you go significantly out of your way to induce (ie PCs fighting off 10,000 goblins in a 5-ft long corridor), and even then missing the mark severely. People should not be getting fatigued quickly.

I dont think its quickly.. A 4th level fighter has 40 rounds + con mod.. thats a lot.. that means he can fight full tilt for 4 minutes without even breathing heavy... I guess you missed the point.. and its not just fighting.. its moving.. And its not a house rule.. its in an offical 2.0 TSR book...

Out and out sprinting gives you a minute before you start having to make checks to stop, and even a barbarian's rage (a state of advanced energy consumption that few are capable of to say the least) goes for 1 minute + con mod. It's been a long damn time since I've been in a "real" fight, but even in a more controlled situation, like aggressive sparring in martial arts, I can go a good 5-6 minutes before I notice any decline in my performance. I wouldn't consider myself to be much above if even at all above average constitution.

your Martial arts.. is out of context.. when are you swinging a 15+ lb weapon, carry hundreds of pounds of gear.. and not including the armor and fighting tooth and nail for extended minutes.... in MA.. your little belt and robe thing sure weighs alot LMAO... and its a control enviroment.. you know your life isnt on the line... so its not the same..
Norsesmithy
06-05-06, 08:14 PM Even so, fatigued is not "just breathing heavy". I think that the times are to short, 4 minutes for the fighter before having penalties, at 4th level, is too much of a hindrance.

And LOL @ 15 lb weapon, that is just hilarious! I love people who think that, the expression on their faces when they hold a Real Sword for the first time.
Nom
06-05-06, 08:17 PM From PH pg 164, you can move at "hustle" speed for a total of 1 hour per day. Exceeding this limit deals 1 point of non-lethal damage (plus fatigue) in the first hour, 2 points in the second, 4 in the third, and so on.

While not perfect, this would be a good starting point for combat fatigue rules.

Alternatively, base it off the running rules on PH pg 144.

The biggest problem with 'combat fatigue' rules is deciding what counts as strenuous. Is making a full attack harder than casting a spell? What if I take a round out to drink a potion? You either need a very fine-grained tracking system or just wave your hands and say "as long as you haven't been fighting more than an hour or so in total you're fine".
The_Normal_Anomaly
06-05-06, 08:20 PM Even so, fatigued is not "just breathing heavy". I think that the times are to short, 4 minutes for the fighter before having penalties, at 4th level, is too much of a hindrance.

And LOL @ 15 lb weapon, that is just hilarious! I love people who think that, the expression on their faces when they hold a Real Sword for the first time.

...and then ask them about this sword (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/thumb/5/50/Cloud_Strife_art.jpg/180px-Cloud_Strife_art.jpg)
Darth_Azalin
06-05-06, 08:34 PM Even so, fatigued is not "just breathing heavy". I think that the times are to short, 4 minutes for the fighter before having penalties, at 4th level, is too much of a hindrance.

And LOL @ 15 lb weapon, that is just hilarious! I love people who think that, the expression on their faces when they hold a Real Sword for the first time.

I have many swords (real) that Im looking and could be touching (but its hard to type then)...

Not everything is like a baseball bat.. (which is weighed in ounce)

And after 4+ mins that 4th level fighter.. takes his sv fortitude.. if it makes it.. then it gets harder.. once hes fatigued.. he has to make a DC check with how many rounds he rested + Con mod.. if he makes it .. hes fresh.. All it is saying that you take a moment to rest.. And Im going to use DC 20...
Rulebook
06-05-06, 08:35 PM well, given that most fights are over in under a minute, and rarely last more than 3 minutes, most combat fatigue rules would make your PCs seem pathetic.

i mean winded after only 3 minutes of exertion? my out of shape 280lb tub of lard friend can play soccer for something hardcore for at least 20 minutes before having to rest.

and we're talking about people who are more or less in shape, and trained in how to do what they do. untill combat lasts 10 minutes or more im not even gonna think about fatigue rolls.
Darth_Azalin
06-05-06, 09:26 PM Well Im just saying what I found on combat length....

It seems good enough to use.. and it hurts people that take lower con scores first off..

And since you use this rule in its form.. you convert it too 3.0 rules using the 2.0 to 3.0 rulebook.. (nothing really changes except the saving throw)

then 3.5 says if the rule didnt get reprinted.. its used in its 3.0 form..

so there you go... combat fatigue rules.
Sunrider
06-05-06, 09:56 PM LOL @ 15lb swords.

A 'bastard' sword was anywhere from 2-4lb. A two-handed 'great' sword could be anywhere from 3-7lb. Anything more than that is practically unuseable as a weapon (yes, I know modern rifles, etc. can weigh more, but you don't swing a rifle around like a sword, unless you're out of ammo and don't have a knife or club/stick handy...).

D&D weights are way off, even if you count them as including the scabbard - you could say they represent how much something encumbers you rather than how much it actually weighs, but that's merely trying to justify something that should have been different in the first place.
Darth_Azalin
06-05-06, 10:02 PM your bastard sword is 6 lbs in phb 117

your greatsword is 8 lbs

while greataxe 12 lbs

i believe the orc weapon is 15 lbs..

so very much so... these weights are correct..
you cant defend the phb as canon then say there weights are off..

Remember this.. the Long sword weighed a lot more than a katana and for the most part they were equal.. the Asian weaponsmiths were able to fold weapons and make them lighter and more lethal...
Norsesmithy
06-05-06, 11:00 PM DA, dont go there, I say you're wrong, but I have already made my sentiments on that topic clear (preban), you can look at them on page 17, and deeper.

I will not use encumbrance weight in the phb, they are just bullhonky.
Bulletproof_Condom
06-06-06, 03:06 PM If your "length" changes in combat, I think you may need counselling.
Ziggity-Zing!
was_fired
06-06-06, 03:28 PM I always figured weights were overstated to also factor in mechanical disadvantage.
primemover003
06-06-06, 03:59 PM As someone who used to DM using the "2.5" Combat & Tactics book I can tell you that the Fatigue rules were a pain in the neck to run. It complicated combat too much. We're not talking average Joe Commoner fighting, we're talking heroes. As such little things like becoming fatigued after swinging your weapon for a minute or two seemed unworthy.

In 3.5 Barbarians suffer fatigue after their Rage runs out (3 rnds + Con Modifier). Why should a Fighter or wizard suffer the same drawback if they don't get some numerical bonus. Fatigue (and an AC penalty) is the price a Bbn pays to get +4 Str and Con while fighting. No other class gets that bonus and therefore shouldn't have to pay that price.

However if you want to use that mechanic look at the Swimming rules for Holding your breath as the best comparison. Use 2x Con minus 1 round for every Standard or Full Round Action they take (Move actions don't count against the limit).
Darth_Azalin
06-06-06, 04:33 PM Sorry best comparison?

We are comparing Combat.. be it Chain Mail, Box edition, 1.0, 2.0, PO, 3.0, or 3.5 you comparing combat with combat..

The only thing that has to be address is in 2.0 and PO (players options)..

is that there was 5 combat rounds in 1 round and 50 combat rounds in 1 turn.. (where the combat round took 10-15 seconds average of lets say 12)...

So when the C&T states rounds.. is it reference combat rounds or rounds...

So lets jump ahead too 3.5.. each combat round takes 6 seconds and theres 10 of them in 1 minute...

You could easy put it that it means rounds.. so you just add 10 to that number if you want to make it easy for combat rounds..

I personally might just keep it rounds... So a 4th fighter.. with a con of 16 will have 43 rounds of combat before he has to see if he needs to catch his breathe... that is plenty of time.. thats 4 1/3 minutes of extreme action...

What Im going to have to do is reference the endurance feat in this.. maybe what I will do is just double your fatigue points I dont know....
primemover003
06-06-06, 05:40 PM There were 5 combat Phases in one round, 1 round = 1 minute. 10 rounds per turn, 1 turn = 10 minutes. Each Phase was closer to the different Actions in 3.5 (standard, move, free, full round, swift, immediate) than an entire round's worth of actions.

And no we're not comparing Combat to Combat, that'd be a comparison of thAC0 to BAB. We're comparing mechanics based on longevity in combat which would fall under Ability scores, Constitution to be exact. The Swim rules for holding ones breath ARE probably the best comparison to use. They scale by what the character does in combat and are only affected by Con score (or any feat that'd affect con score).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth_Azalin 06-05-06, 01:43 PM	Ok Im having problems locating where it says something about fighting/combat length... It used to be your Con scored was the measuring stick.. and after so many turns and/or hours you got fatigued then you were exhausted.. Because this has came up and I want to enforce the effects of long combat.. Anyone find such a thing?
Solian 06-05-06, 02:14 PM	I've never found anything like it, but it would be a good house rule to enforce! if nobody else comes up with the actual rule, make it yourself and enforce it as a house rule.
Bulletproof_Condom 06-05-06, 02:22 PM	No such rule in 3.5. Feel free to plug it in. Just remember that certain actions (total defense, just moving, most skill checks) are not as strenuous as others.
Darth_Azalin 06-05-06, 02:57 PM	Well I found it in Combat and Tactics Basically its Hit Dice + Con modifier thats your fatigue points anytime the character moves or attacks you check off 1 point.. when that total gets to zero.. you are fatigued.. you do it again but this time you take 2 points away.. then your exhausted.. then you have to take a break and make a roll vs paralyzation (would be fortitude) at a cumulative +1 for each round you rested (do nothing) also modified by your Constitution score.. and I would start DC at 15.. or even 20 doesnt seem overpowered...
SlagMortar 06-05-06, 03:40 PM	Keep in mind that this will make anyone who relies on attacking (fighters, barbarians, etc) weaker in comparison, unless you add spellcasting to the list of actions that cause fatigue. Also keep in mind that fatigue is part of what is represented as hit points.
Solian 06-05-06, 04:24 PM	I would think that spellcasting, especially arcane, would take more because your using some of your own engery to cast a spell most of the time. though, with people who cast divine spells, it would be harder to figure out rules for it because they get their powers from other sources.
djinni 06-05-06, 04:55 PM	I would think that spellcasting, especially arcane, would take more because your using some of your own engery to cast a spell most of the time. though, with people who cast divine spells, it would be harder to figure out rules for it because they get their powers from other sources. in the DnD world you don't use part of your own energy unless you are a psion, you use the energies of magic which you shape into the spells etc....etc... although casting a spell = 1 fatigue point per spell level, sounds good to me
malignor 06-05-06, 05:14 PM	If your "length" changes in combat, I think you may need counselling.
ShinAkuma2 06-05-06, 05:32 PM	If your "length" changes in combat, I think you may need counselling. I regularly game with a girl who plays a top-heavy, chainmail bikini wearing barbarian. I would find it hard to NOT "change length" around her...if my character in that campaign weren't also female. They do "get along" very well, though. Veeery well.
malignor 06-05-06, 05:55 PM	I regularly game with a girl who plays a top-heavy, chainmail bikini wearing barbarian. I would find it hard to NOT "change length" around her...if my character in that campaign weren't also female. They do "get along" very well, though. Veeery well.... the notion of a couple of "chicks in chainmail" characters getting all hot & sweaty in their little outfits is the one exception. = = = = Anyway, as for combat and stamina/endurance, I'd have to say that I can't find any rules for it. But I can tell you that combat is about as tiring as running (not jogging, I mean real running). Perhaps the rules could simply be adopted.
Inigo Carmine 06-05-06, 07:39 PM	Well I found it in Combat and Tactics Basically its Hit Dice + Con modifier thats your fatigue points anytime the character moves or attacks you check off 1 point.. when that total gets to zero.. you are fatigued.. This makes your average lv 1 (and level 2 if I'm reading it right) character fatigued after a single round of combat. not very realistic. Combat in D&D 3.5, while sometimes taking hours to resolve in the real world, tends to happen in 2-3 rounds in game. Even some of the longer, protracted battles I've been in (everyone has improved cover for +8 to AC and is fighting defensively) tend not to last more than about 5 rounds. I think you're trying to create a rule for a situation that will only occur if you go significantly out of your way to induce (ie PCs fighting off 10,000 goblins in a 5-ft long corridor), and even then missing the mark severely. People should not be getting fatigued quickly. Out and out sprinting gives you a minute before you start having to make checks to stop, and even a barbarian's rage (a state of advanced energy consumption that few are capable of to say the least) goes for 1 minute + con mod. It's been a long damn time since I've been in a "real" fight, but even in a more controlled situation, like aggressive sparring in martial arts, I can go a good 5-6 minutes before I notice any decline in my performance. I wouldn't consider myself to be much above if even at all above average constitution.
Sunrider 06-05-06, 07:56 PM	Such fatigue rules are difficult to implement becuase 'combat' covers so many different areas. Some fights may be intense chopping matches that last two or three rounds. Others maybe be intense firefights between ranged forces lying prone and using cover, lasting much longer. Some could involve lightning raids by mounted archers on enemy positions, horses galloping past at high speed (double move or run) while the riders loose arrows as fast as they can. Others, yet, may involve a sniper using stealth and concealment to slowly pick apart an enemy force over time. And, finally, you have the situation of a duel between two snipers, which may consist of a game of cat-and-mouse lasting for hours. Clearly the chopping match is the most physically (if not mentally) strenuous of the fights described yet, under the proposed rules, the duelling snipers are much more likely to become fatigued or exhausted (since 'combat' could last for hours, even though attacks it's mostly stalking rather than shooting).
Darth_Azalin 06-05-06, 07:56 PM	This makes your average lv 1 (and level 2 if I'm reading it right) character fatigued after a single round of combat. not very realistic. No I said Hit dice.. meaning Barbarians is 12, fighters 10, etc.. and then you add in your con modifer.. so if you were a wizard and your con gave you a -3.. yes walking 1 round would get you winded... Combat in D&D 3.5, while sometimes taking hours to resolve in the real world, tends to happen in 2-3 rounds in game. Even some of the longer, protracted battles I've been in (everyone has improved cover for +8 to AC and is fighting defensively) tend not to last more than about 5 rounds. The idea is you can't fight forever.. and I believe its easy enough to put in.. And I might even say spell casting is 1pt/lvl (even saying level 0 spells are 1 pt).. and to make the warlock even less powerful.. if he raises his blast from default.. it then is treated as a certain level.. (just like quicken spell-like ability and empower these costs go up) so will blasting the blast each round.. I think you're trying to create a rule for a situation that will only occur if you go significantly out of your way to induce (ie PCs fighting off 10,000 goblins in a 5-ft long corridor), and even then missing the mark severely. People should not be getting fatigued quickly. I dont think its quickly.. A 4th level fighter has 40 rounds + con mod.. thats a lot.. that means he can fight full tilt for 4 minutes without even breathing heavy... I guess you missed the point.. and its not just fighting.. its moving.. And its not a house rule.. its in an offical 2.0 TSR book... Out and out sprinting gives you a minute before you start having to make checks to stop, and even a barbarian's rage (a state of advanced energy consumption that few are capable of to say the least) goes for 1 minute + con mod. It's been a long damn time since I've been in a "real" fight, but even in a more controlled situation, like aggressive sparring in martial arts, I can go a good 5-6 minutes before I notice any decline in my performance. I wouldn't consider myself to be much above if even at all above average constitution. your Martial arts.. is out of context.. when are you swinging a 15+ lb weapon, carry hundreds of pounds of gear.. and not including the armor and fighting tooth and nail for extended minutes.... in MA.. your little belt and robe thing sure weighs alot LMAO... and its a control enviroment.. you know your life isnt on the line... so its not the same..
Norsesmithy 06-05-06, 08:14 PM	Even so, fatigued is not "just breathing heavy". I think that the times are to short, 4 minutes for the fighter before having penalties, at 4th level, is too much of a hindrance. And LOL @ 15 lb weapon, that is just hilarious! I love people who think that, the expression on their faces when they hold a Real Sword for the first time.
Nom 06-05-06, 08:17 PM	From PH pg 164, you can move at "hustle" speed for a total of 1 hour per day. Exceeding this limit deals 1 point of non-lethal damage (plus fatigue) in the first hour, 2 points in the second, 4 in the third, and so on. While not perfect, this would be a good starting point for combat fatigue rules. Alternatively, base it off the running rules on PH pg 144. The biggest problem with 'combat fatigue' rules is deciding what counts as strenuous. Is making a full attack harder than casting a spell? What if I take a round out to drink a potion? You either need a very fine-grained tracking system or just wave your hands and say "as long as you haven't been fighting more than an hour or so in total you're fine".
The_Normal_Anomaly 06-05-06, 08:20 PM	Even so, fatigued is not "just breathing heavy". I think that the times are to short, 4 minutes for the fighter before having penalties, at 4th level, is too much of a hindrance. And LOL @ 15 lb weapon, that is just hilarious! I love people who think that, the expression on their faces when they hold a Real Sword for the first time. ...and then ask them about this sword (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/thumb/5/50/Cloud_Strife_art.jpg/180px-Cloud_Strife_art.jpg)
Darth_Azalin 06-05-06, 08:34 PM	Even so, fatigued is not "just breathing heavy". I think that the times are to short, 4 minutes for the fighter before having penalties, at 4th level, is too much of a hindrance. And LOL @ 15 lb weapon, that is just hilarious! I love people who think that, the expression on their faces when they hold a Real Sword for the first time. I have many swords (real) that Im looking and could be touching (but its hard to type then)... Not everything is like a baseball bat.. (which is weighed in ounce) And after 4+ mins that 4th level fighter.. takes his sv fortitude.. if it makes it.. then it gets harder.. once hes fatigued.. he has to make a DC check with how many rounds he rested + Con mod.. if he makes it .. hes fresh.. All it is saying that you take a moment to rest.. And Im going to use DC 20...
Rulebook 06-05-06, 08:35 PM	well, given that most fights are over in under a minute, and rarely last more than 3 minutes, most combat fatigue rules would make your PCs seem pathetic. i mean winded after only 3 minutes of exertion? my out of shape 280lb tub of lard friend can play soccer for something hardcore for at least 20 minutes before having to rest. and we're talking about people who are more or less in shape, and trained in how to do what they do. untill combat lasts 10 minutes or more im not even gonna think about fatigue rolls.
Darth_Azalin 06-05-06, 09:26 PM	Well Im just saying what I found on combat length.... It seems good enough to use.. and it hurts people that take lower con scores first off.. And since you use this rule in its form.. you convert it too 3.0 rules using the 2.0 to 3.0 rulebook.. (nothing really changes except the saving throw) then 3.5 says if the rule didnt get reprinted.. its used in its 3.0 form.. so there you go... combat fatigue rules.
Sunrider 06-05-06, 09:56 PM	LOL @ 15lb swords. A 'bastard' sword was anywhere from 2-4lb. A two-handed 'great' sword could be anywhere from 3-7lb. Anything more than that is practically unuseable as a weapon (yes, I know modern rifles, etc. can weigh more, but you don't swing a rifle around like a sword, unless you're out of ammo and don't have a knife or club/stick handy...). D&D weights are way off, even if you count them as including the scabbard - you could say they represent how much something encumbers you rather than how much it actually weighs, but that's merely trying to justify something that should have been different in the first place.
Darth_Azalin 06-05-06, 10:02 PM	your bastard sword is 6 lbs in phb 117 your greatsword is 8 lbs while greataxe 12 lbs i believe the orc weapon is 15 lbs.. so very much so... these weights are correct.. you cant defend the phb as canon then say there weights are off.. Remember this.. the Long sword weighed a lot more than a katana and for the most part they were equal.. the Asian weaponsmiths were able to fold weapons and make them lighter and more lethal...
Norsesmithy 06-05-06, 11:00 PM	DA, dont go there, I say you're wrong, but I have already made my sentiments on that topic clear (preban), you can look at them on page 17, and deeper. I will not use encumbrance weight in the phb, they are just bullhonky.
Bulletproof_Condom 06-06-06, 03:06 PM	If your "length" changes in combat, I think you may need counselling. Ziggity-Zing!
was_fired 06-06-06, 03:28 PM	I always figured weights were overstated to also factor in mechanical disadvantage.
primemover003 06-06-06, 03:59 PM	As someone who used to DM using the "2.5" Combat & Tactics book I can tell you that the Fatigue rules were a pain in the neck to run. It complicated combat too much. We're not talking average Joe Commoner fighting, we're talking heroes. As such little things like becoming fatigued after swinging your weapon for a minute or two seemed unworthy. In 3.5 Barbarians suffer fatigue after their Rage runs out (3 rnds + Con Modifier). Why should a Fighter or wizard suffer the same drawback if they don't get some numerical bonus. Fatigue (and an AC penalty) is the price a Bbn pays to get +4 Str and Con while fighting. No other class gets that bonus and therefore shouldn't have to pay that price. However if you want to use that mechanic look at the Swimming rules for Holding your breath as the best comparison. Use 2x Con minus 1 round for every Standard or Full Round Action they take (Move actions don't count against the limit).
Darth_Azalin 06-06-06, 04:33 PM	Sorry best comparison? We are comparing Combat.. be it Chain Mail, Box edition, 1.0, 2.0, PO, 3.0, or 3.5 you comparing combat with combat.. The only thing that has to be address is in 2.0 and PO (players options).. is that there was 5 combat rounds in 1 round and 50 combat rounds in 1 turn.. (where the combat round took 10-15 seconds average of lets say 12)... So when the C&T states rounds.. is it reference combat rounds or rounds... So lets jump ahead too 3.5.. each combat round takes 6 seconds and theres 10 of them in 1 minute... You could easy put it that it means rounds.. so you just add 10 to that number if you want to make it easy for combat rounds.. I personally might just keep it rounds... So a 4th fighter.. with a con of 16 will have 43 rounds of combat before he has to see if he needs to catch his breathe... that is plenty of time.. thats 4 1/3 minutes of extreme action... What Im going to have to do is reference the endurance feat in this.. maybe what I will do is just double your fatigue points I dont know....
primemover003 06-06-06, 05:40 PM	There were 5 combat Phases in one round, 1 round = 1 minute. 10 rounds per turn, 1 turn = 10 minutes. Each Phase was closer to the different Actions in 3.5 (standard, move, free, full round, swift, immediate) than an entire round's worth of actions. And no we're not comparing Combat to Combat, that'd be a comparison of thAC0 to BAB. We're comparing mechanics based on longevity in combat which would fall under Ability scores, Constitution to be exact. The Swim rules for holding ones breath ARE probably the best comparison to use. They scale by what the character does in combat and are only affected by Con score (or any feat that'd affect con score).