Combat Tactics for 3-5th level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Combat Tactics for 3-5th level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ninjajucer
11-29-05, 07:42 AM Ok, have a party with a 4th halfling rogue, 4th human monk with a grapple study, a 5th human fighter who is not a tank type, a 3rd frail wizard with mostly useless spells, and a 4th druid.

Basically we have to go venture into a light forest, then into a jungle with increasing CRs (raptors, giant snakes, etc..). So besides the obvious tactic of having the monk trip everything and have the rogue sneak attack the tripped opponent, what other strategies could we attempt?
Josh C
11-29-05, 09:23 AM The monk probably won't be all that good at tripping, especially if he hasn't used his feats to get improved trip. He won't get it as a bonus feat for two more levels.

Also, prone does not deny dex bonus. So you're still going to have to flank or grapple your opponent.

If you're going to face a lot of animals, the druid can prepare a bunch of calm animals and charm animals spells. Then you can just by pass them. Most wild animals won't even get a save vs calm animals.
dogolopee
11-29-05, 09:47 AM The forest and jungle should be the druid's playground.

Hide from animals is a good way to avoid some of the nastier critters.
Use the Wizard's familar and or the druid's animal companion to help scout ahead.
All the animal spells could be of great use to help avoid fights or give the others time to prep.

Against animals your best bet is to try and take advantage of thier lower AC, while avoiding their 3+ attacks per turn.

The monk can always do the grapple thing. Odds are he will have much trouble tripping things with 4 leggs that are size large.

If you have someone in the group with a really high AC, you can use them to draw attacks of opportunity from creatures (moving through through threatened squares usally works) as the animals probably would attack whoever moved by first. Then after you have taken up a creature's attack of opportunity, others in the group have a better chance of grappling.

Torches are an often underestimated way to scare off an animal (depending on how the GM runs things).

Using trees as cover is always a good idea.

Ranged weapons from up in a tree is often a decent tatic if you have warning the critters are coming.

What kind of fighter is the fighter? what weapons do they use? What spells does the wizard know? The spells may seem usless, but if applied creativly might have some benifit. What is the Wizard's familar? What is the druid's animal companion? How much prep time do they all have? Do they have time to buy/make items and if so how much do they have to spend?
LaoKhanWei
11-29-05, 10:25 AM Well as soon as your druid hits 5th level he'll be a force to be reckoned with due to Wild Shape. There's a feat from Complete Adventurer that gives you a +3 effective Druid level for determining your animal companions abilities. Combine this with a single level of Beastmaster and a few druid spells and your animal companion just about unstoppable at lower levels.
Ninjajucer
11-29-05, 11:07 AM Currently in city after last attempt. Fighter is more of a light melee character. After facing several raptors and a giant 50' snake we retreated back to city. Oh and animals are being controlled by a Lizardfolk druid. Wizard has a bat, Druid has a dog.
PurdueDave
12-01-05, 01:05 AM There's a feat from Complete Adventurer that gives you a +3 effective Druid level for determining your animal companions abilities.
The feat doesn't increase his druid level as regards to animal companion above his effective character level. The feat is for characters that've multi-classed and such.

OP...If your party is having problems tactically it's probably because you lack a primary attack recipient (high AC, lots of HP). The druid can help this by casting more summonings. They won't have the staying power but don't cost anything and they do a much better job of damage attrition than healing spells of the same level unless you're facing area effect damage.
LaoKhanWei
12-01-05, 01:25 AM Oh right, it's only the beastmaster levels that stack. My mistake.
Rulebook
12-01-05, 01:41 PM it looks like youve built what my group calles an "RP group"

meaning you're not going to dominate the battlefield, so shift your focus off of it. the quicker the better.

otherwise, start defining roles quickly. theres no such thing as a wizard with usless spells. (though there are some that are hard to use). if its piddly crap like charm person and tensers disk find some way to use it. sit down with your wizard and hammer out strategy.

light melee fighter? ask him to class into ranger or something that gives tumble, so you can buddy up with the rogue. (seirously, unless he's a finesse fighter, why on earth cant he front-line? and if he IS a finesse fighter, why isnt he better prepared?)

and on that subject, keep your monk as a skirmisher, or as a skirmisher/flanker, or grappling the lesser guys to keep them at bay.

your druid can buff and enhance until 5th level, in which case he likely becomes the tank. no-brainer there.
mvincent
12-01-05, 01:54 PM Try this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=348256) for some core, lower level tactics.
Ash the blackcowl
12-01-05, 03:00 PM it looks like youve built what my group calles an "RP group"

meaning you're not going to dominate the battlefield, so shift your focus off of it. the quicker the better.

otherwise, start defining roles quickly. theres no such thing as a wizard with usless spells. (though there are some that are hard to use). if its piddly crap like charm person and tensers disk find some way to use it. sit down with your wizard and hammer out strategy.

light melee fighter? ask him to class into ranger or something that gives tumble, so you can buddy up with the rogue. (seirously, unless he's a finesse fighter, why on earth cant he front-line? and if he IS a finesse fighter, why isnt he better prepared?)

and on that subject, keep your monk as a skirmisher, or as a skirmisher/flanker, or grappling the lesser guys to keep them at bay.

your druid can buff and enhance until 5th level, in which case he likely becomes the tank. no-brainer there.

Best advice I have seen given in the 4 or 5 months I have been on the board. Parties that work together tend to survive and have more fun doing it.
Puca
12-01-05, 04:25 PM Ok, have a party with a 4th halfling rogue,This guy has a high dex and is likely a ranged combat guy or get-in-and-flank guy.
For the former, Id try to max out Climb. Youre in a jungle; get up in the trees and open fire at the baddies below. Make sure he has Point-Blank and Precise Shots.

As a flanker, max out Tumble so you can move easily through threatened squares and pair up with the monk. Two-weapon fighting will let you get more SA damage per round. Or let the monk with his greater speed move to flank, as the surface will be difficult.

4th human monk with a grapple study, Well, as pointed out, creatures with 4 (or no) legs are hard to trip, and big stuff is hard to pin, but this isnt that bad when you consider that some of these things you are going to face have Improved Grab and Constrict and whatnot. This makes him marginally better at getting out of those situations, so he is a good candidate for being the one up front facing their attacks.

a 5th human fighter who is not a tank type,The beauty of the fighter is that hes a generalist: he can do it all. He may wish to be light and fast, but you all wish to survive the damn jungle. Suck it up and put some armor on. At the very least get a reach weapon so he can threaten some more squares and assist the monk and rogue while doing decent damage. (Does he have Combat Reflexes? I imagine a scenario of being surrounded by hungry animals and trying to fend them off.) Dont forget the Aid Another option. Anyone can pull that off.

a 3rd frail wizard with mostly useless spells,A sorcerer might have useless spells. A wizard chooses to prepare his anew each day. If the ones he has arent cutting it, buy some scrolls or borrow a spellbook and start writing new ones down. Enlarge Person will help that monk in the front and give a fighter with a reach weapon more reach. Animals have poor Will saves.

and a 4th druid.Youve already gotten good advice on this. Animal Trance and Hide from Animals are good.

There are a lot of trees, so utilize cover and concealment. Also strongly consider climbing up as often as you can. (Both your Druid and your wizard should have access to Spiderclimb.) You get +1 to hit for being on higher ground.
Ninjajucer
12-01-05, 08:06 PM The fighter is his first character ever, so he's not sure on what exactly his role was upon creating the class. So he's not too schooled on the priorities of being a "tank".

Great advice from all. Thanks. Hope this helps on Saturday, of course if all goes to hell, I may have to go with some sort of cheap psionic using class.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ninjajucer 11-29-05, 07:42 AM	Ok, have a party with a 4th halfling rogue, 4th human monk with a grapple study, a 5th human fighter who is not a tank type, a 3rd frail wizard with mostly useless spells, and a 4th druid. Basically we have to go venture into a light forest, then into a jungle with increasing CRs (raptors, giant snakes, etc..). So besides the obvious tactic of having the monk trip everything and have the rogue sneak attack the tripped opponent, what other strategies could we attempt?
Josh C 11-29-05, 09:23 AM	The monk probably won't be all that good at tripping, especially if he hasn't used his feats to get improved trip. He won't get it as a bonus feat for two more levels. Also, prone does not deny dex bonus. So you're still going to have to flank or grapple your opponent. If you're going to face a lot of animals, the druid can prepare a bunch of calm animals and charm animals spells. Then you can just by pass them. Most wild animals won't even get a save vs calm animals.
dogolopee 11-29-05, 09:47 AM	The forest and jungle should be the druid's playground. Hide from animals is a good way to avoid some of the nastier critters. Use the Wizard's familar and or the druid's animal companion to help scout ahead. All the animal spells could be of great use to help avoid fights or give the others time to prep. Against animals your best bet is to try and take advantage of thier lower AC, while avoiding their 3+ attacks per turn. The monk can always do the grapple thing. Odds are he will have much trouble tripping things with 4 leggs that are size large. If you have someone in the group with a really high AC, you can use them to draw attacks of opportunity from creatures (moving through through threatened squares usally works) as the animals probably would attack whoever moved by first. Then after you have taken up a creature's attack of opportunity, others in the group have a better chance of grappling. Torches are an often underestimated way to scare off an animal (depending on how the GM runs things). Using trees as cover is always a good idea. Ranged weapons from up in a tree is often a decent tatic if you have warning the critters are coming. What kind of fighter is the fighter? what weapons do they use? What spells does the wizard know? The spells may seem usless, but if applied creativly might have some benifit. What is the Wizard's familar? What is the druid's animal companion? How much prep time do they all have? Do they have time to buy/make items and if so how much do they have to spend?
LaoKhanWei 11-29-05, 10:25 AM	Well as soon as your druid hits 5th level he'll be a force to be reckoned with due to Wild Shape. There's a feat from Complete Adventurer that gives you a +3 effective Druid level for determining your animal companions abilities. Combine this with a single level of Beastmaster and a few druid spells and your animal companion just about unstoppable at lower levels.
Ninjajucer 11-29-05, 11:07 AM	Currently in city after last attempt. Fighter is more of a light melee character. After facing several raptors and a giant 50' snake we retreated back to city. Oh and animals are being controlled by a Lizardfolk druid. Wizard has a bat, Druid has a dog.
PurdueDave 12-01-05, 01:05 AM	There's a feat from Complete Adventurer that gives you a +3 effective Druid level for determining your animal companions abilities. The feat doesn't increase his druid level as regards to animal companion above his effective character level. The feat is for characters that've multi-classed and such. OP...If your party is having problems tactically it's probably because you lack a primary attack recipient (high AC, lots of HP). The druid can help this by casting more summonings. They won't have the staying power but don't cost anything and they do a much better job of damage attrition than healing spells of the same level unless you're facing area effect damage.
LaoKhanWei 12-01-05, 01:25 AM	Oh right, it's only the beastmaster levels that stack. My mistake.
Rulebook 12-01-05, 01:41 PM	it looks like youve built what my group calles an "RP group" meaning you're not going to dominate the battlefield, so shift your focus off of it. the quicker the better. otherwise, start defining roles quickly. theres no such thing as a wizard with usless spells. (though there are some that are hard to use). if its piddly crap like charm person and tensers disk find some way to use it. sit down with your wizard and hammer out strategy. light melee fighter? ask him to class into ranger or something that gives tumble, so you can buddy up with the rogue. (seirously, unless he's a finesse fighter, why on earth cant he front-line? and if he IS a finesse fighter, why isnt he better prepared?) and on that subject, keep your monk as a skirmisher, or as a skirmisher/flanker, or grappling the lesser guys to keep them at bay. your druid can buff and enhance until 5th level, in which case he likely becomes the tank. no-brainer there.
mvincent 12-01-05, 01:54 PM	Try this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=348256) for some core, lower level tactics.
Ash the blackcowl 12-01-05, 03:00 PM	it looks like youve built what my group calles an "RP group" meaning you're not going to dominate the battlefield, so shift your focus off of it. the quicker the better. otherwise, start defining roles quickly. theres no such thing as a wizard with usless spells. (though there are some that are hard to use). if its piddly crap like charm person and tensers disk find some way to use it. sit down with your wizard and hammer out strategy. light melee fighter? ask him to class into ranger or something that gives tumble, so you can buddy up with the rogue. (seirously, unless he's a finesse fighter, why on earth cant he front-line? and if he IS a finesse fighter, why isnt he better prepared?) and on that subject, keep your monk as a skirmisher, or as a skirmisher/flanker, or grappling the lesser guys to keep them at bay. your druid can buff and enhance until 5th level, in which case he likely becomes the tank. no-brainer there. Best advice I have seen given in the 4 or 5 months I have been on the board. Parties that work together tend to survive and have more fun doing it.
Puca 12-01-05, 04:25 PM	Ok, have a party with a 4th halfling rogue,This guy has a high dex and is likely a ranged combat guy or get-in-and-flank guy. For the former, Id try to max out Climb. Youre in a jungle; get up in the trees and open fire at the baddies below. Make sure he has Point-Blank and Precise Shots. As a flanker, max out Tumble so you can move easily through threatened squares and pair up with the monk. Two-weapon fighting will let you get more SA damage per round. Or let the monk with his greater speed move to flank, as the surface will be difficult. 4th human monk with a grapple study, Well, as pointed out, creatures with 4 (or no) legs are hard to trip, and big stuff is hard to pin, but this isnt that bad when you consider that some of these things you are going to face have Improved Grab and Constrict and whatnot. This makes him marginally better at getting out of those situations, so he is a good candidate for being the one up front facing their attacks. a 5th human fighter who is not a tank type,The beauty of the fighter is that hes a generalist: he can do it all. He may wish to be light and fast, but you all wish to survive the damn jungle. Suck it up and put some armor on. At the very least get a reach weapon so he can threaten some more squares and assist the monk and rogue while doing decent damage. (Does he have Combat Reflexes? I imagine a scenario of being surrounded by hungry animals and trying to fend them off.) Dont forget the Aid Another option. Anyone can pull that off. a 3rd frail wizard with mostly useless spells,A sorcerer might have useless spells. A wizard chooses to prepare his anew each day. If the ones he has arent cutting it, buy some scrolls or borrow a spellbook and start writing new ones down. Enlarge Person will help that monk in the front and give a fighter with a reach weapon more reach. Animals have poor Will saves. and a 4th druid.Youve already gotten good advice on this. Animal Trance and Hide from Animals are good. There are a lot of trees, so utilize cover and concealment. Also strongly consider climbing up as often as you can. (Both your Druid and your wizard should have access to Spiderclimb.) You get +1 to hit for being on higher ground.
Ninjajucer 12-01-05, 08:06 PM	The fighter is his first character ever, so he's not sure on what exactly his role was upon creating the class. So he's not too schooled on the priorities of being a "tank". Great advice from all. Thanks. Hope this helps on Saturday, of course if all goes to hell, I may have to go with some sort of cheap psionic using class.