Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kage_no_Neko 08-17-06, 06:47 PM	I do not know if this has been covered before, but can you combine melee and ranged attacks in a full attack action. For example: 1. A 3rd level rogue with Two Weapon Fighting, a short sword, and a hand crossbow. 2. A 6th level fighter with a long sword and a hand crossbow. 3. Some creature with claws as a primary attack using a bow to attack and a claw as a secondary natural attack. 4. A flying creature with the wing buffet secondary natural attack using both a bow and her wings. I know that using a ranged attack in melee range provokes, but some times it is worth it.
Zobdek 08-17-06, 06:55 PM	I see no reason why you cannot do these actions, though I am not really as proficients with the rules as others are so I may be wrong. But I don't recal reading anywhere that this is forbidden. Except maybe example #3 but only because off hand I cannot remember the natural weapon rules.
Tony Vargas 08-17-06, 06:56 PM	Yes. I don't like some of your examples, because they combine manufactured and natural weapons (which normally have different full attack sequences), but asside from that, yes. If you have a useable ranged and melee weapon in hand, and make a full attack, you can choose which attacks to use with which weapon. If you're TWF, you have to make one attack with one, one with the other. If you have itterative attacks and quickdraw you drop-and-draw to mix types of attacks - you could make a ranged attack with a bow, drop it, draw a greatsword, take a 5' step, and make a melee attack with it, for instance.
Nived 08-17-06, 06:59 PM	Keep in mind that shooting a crossbow while in melee would provoke an attack of opportunity. Remember also that reloading a hand crossbow is a move action, that provokes an attack of opportunity, and requires two hands. Even with rapid reload (which reduced the reload time to a free action) it requires two hands. Thus it'd be a poor choice.
LordPendragon 08-17-06, 07:11 PM	True, but any Fighter worth his salt usually ends up taking Quick Draw, and a dagger works just as well as a hand crossbow. You could even use a greatsword for that attack routine since taking a hand off your weapon is a free action (and I'm assuming putting it back on also is; maybe swift at worst). Actual effectiveness of the tactic aside, the consensus is correct. It is possible to intersperse melee and ranged attacks in any combination you wish, as long as you can effectively wield and reload both weapons without interrupting the attack sequence.
Kage_no_Neko 08-17-06, 07:12 PM	Yes. I don't like some of your examples, because they combine manufactured and natural weapons (which normally have different full attack sequences), but asside from that, yes. From Half-Dragon, MM pg. 146: Attack: A half-dragon has two claw attacks and a bite attack and the claws are the primary natural weapon. If the base creature can use weapons, the half-dragon retains this ability.... Full Attack: ... If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw as an additional natural secondary attack. So using secondary natural attacks, or even primary with weapons has been done before. I was just wondering about combining with a ranged weapon. And I already mentioned that using a ranged weapon in melee range would provoke.
LordPendragon 08-17-06, 07:14 PM	By the way, nice Eternal Witness there. That card is haxxed.
mvincent 08-17-06, 07:20 PM	From the 3.5 FAQ: "Can a character with Quick Draw and a base attack bonus of +6 or better make a melee attack with one weapon and a ranged attack with another weapon in the same round? What if the melee weapon requires two hands to wield? Yes. There’s nothing inherent in the full attack action that requires all the attacks to be made as the same kind of attack or with the same kind of weapon. A character with a base attack bonus of +6 or better holding a longsword, for example, could make a melee attack with the longsword (using his full base attack bonus), drop the longsword (a free action), use Quick Draw to draw a dagger (another free action), then throw the dagger (using his base attack bonus –5). If the character had both hands free (for instance, if he didn’t carry a light or heavy shield in his off hand), he could even use Quick Draw to draw a bow (free action), draw and nock an arrow (free action) and then shoot the bow (using his base attack bonus –5). This situation is actually improved if the melee weapon is a two-handed weapon. A character can hold a two-handed weapon in one hand; he just can’t attack with it while it’s held like that. Thus, he wouldn’t even have to drop the weapon in order to draw and throw the dagger. If Krusk the 6th-level barbarian had Quick Draw, he could swing his greataxe (using his full base attack bonus), then leave the axe in his off-hand while drawing a javelin with his primary hand (free action), and finally throw the javelin (using his base attack bonus –5). If Krusk were drawing a ranged weapon that required two hands to use (such as a bow), he’d have to drop his greataxe."
Kage_no_Neko 08-17-06, 07:23 PM	Thanks.
Tony Vargas 08-17-06, 08:53 PM	So using secondary natural attacks, or even primary with weapons has been done before...Yeah. I was just commenting that I don't like it... :allalone:
BlackFiend 08-18-06, 01:06 PM	A good example would be a character dual wielding a hand axe while doing a full round attack. She'll have 3 attacks per round due to BAB+6. 1. With the first (primary) attack, she sunders the subject's weapon (melee), destroying it. 2. With the second (primary) attack, she hacks into the combatant (melee), slaying him. 3. She looks about and sees an opponent standing over the body of the team's rogue. With the the third (off hand) attack, she overhand tosses (ranged attack) into a second combatant, 20' away. Completely legal.