Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trakx 12-29-05, 08:07 PM	I know a million people have asked this question before me, but I don't see a search bar on the forum that lets me search for related threads, so... My question is: if you have Improved Feint, can you perform full-attack actions when feinting (such as Flurry of Blows, or Two Weapon Fighting)? And finally, I read that you can swap standard actions for move actions, so if Improved Feint lets you do that, too, then what is so great about it? Is it because it is done while in combat? Thanks for any help, - Trakx
CryoSilver 12-29-05, 08:20 PM	First answer: no. Feinting with Improved Feint is a move action, and you cannot perform a move action and a full round action (full attack) in the same round. You could, however, concievably use Dual Strike from CV. In any case, feinting only applies to the next single attack you make against the feinted creature, so even if you feint in one round and use a full attack the next, only your first attack benefits from the feint. Second answer: While you can swap a standard action for a move action, you cannot swap a mvoe action for a standard action. Youa re allowed: two move actions, a move action and a standard action, or a full round action. Because feinting is normally a standard action, you cannot feint and attack in the same round. By making it a move action with Improved Feint, you can feint and attack in the same round.
Trakx 12-30-05, 09:56 AM	First answer: no. Feinting with Improved Feint is a move action, and you cannot perform a move action and a full round action (full attack) in the same round. You could, however, concievably use Dual Strike from CV. In any case, feinting only applies to the next single attack you make against the feinted creature, so even if you feint in one round and use a full attack the next, only your first attack benefits from the feint. Second answer: While you can swap a standard action for a move action, you cannot swap a mvoe action for a standard action. Youa re allowed: two move actions, a move action and a standard action, or a full round action. Because feinting is normally a standard action, you cannot feint and attack in the same round. By making it a move action with Improved Feint, you can feint and attack in the same round. So, the 12th level Ranger with Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Feint could, on his turn, with him next to his enemy - now able to perform a full-attack, could now instead feint (disrupting his full-attack action as he is now concidered to have moved) and do one attack like normal - normal for anyone who moved and attacked. Correct? (Please say 'no')
Puca 12-30-05, 10:09 AM	So, the 12th level Ranger with Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Feint could, on his turn, with him next to his enemy - now able to perform a full-attack, could now instead feint (disrupting his full-attack action as he is now concidered to have moved) and do one attack like normal - normal for anyone who moved and attacked. Correct? (Please say 'no')What do you mean? Im confused. Your ranger, at level 12 could full attack for 4 attacks (2 in each hand) or he could feint (move action) and then make one, single, primary-hand attack versus that opponent. Your ranger could also make one, single, primary-hand attack versus that opponent and then, as a move action, feint. (Assuming sucess) on his next turn, his first attack with whatever weapon will be his "feint attack," i.e. against no Dex. The rest of his four attacks (assuming full attack) would be normal.
Kurotowa 12-30-05, 10:20 AM	So, the 12th level Ranger with Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Feint could, on his turn, with him next to his enemy - now able to perform a full-attack, could now instead feint (disrupting his full-attack action as he is now concidered to have moved) and do one attack like normal - normal for anyone who moved and attacked. Correct? (Please say 'no') Yes, that's correct. Improved Feint is usually best for Rogues, where the sneak attack dice they'll get will be much better than multiple attacks. For a 12th level Ranger, who has full BAB and gets Greater TWF at 11th level, going from six attacks to one attack at a lower AC is usually not worth it. There are a few PrCs that give a class feature allowing feints as a free actions. But they all take several levels and have high restrictions on them. The Invisibile Blade's (CW) Uncanny Feint only works with daggers, and the Scarlet Corsair's (SW) Corsair's Feint has a 2d4 round delay between uses.
Borne Of Hate 12-30-05, 10:24 AM	Suggestion: 1.Improved Feint 2.Sunder/Disarm/Trip ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Obviously for a Rogue Feinting is a great way to get a sneak attack mid combat.
chitzk0i 12-30-05, 04:43 PM	Why would you want to do that? Feinting only affects your opponent's AC and none of those attacks involve AC.
Tyler Do'Urden 12-30-05, 05:18 PM	When you feint, your opponent is denied his Dex bonus to AC versus your next attack as long as you make it before the end of your next turn. This lets you use sneak attack if you have it. It's like flanking but because you're alone it takes twice as long. But feinting is 1) either a standard action or a move action, so you can't normally feint and full attack, and 2) it only applies to one attack. So even if you had extra actions (say from hustle) and you could feint then full attack, they'd only lose their dex bonus versus the first attack. A rogue with Improved Feint can sneak attack in single combat once every round. Given the rogue's choice of weapons, this is usually a good idea.
Cathon 12-30-05, 08:12 PM	Aside from sneak attack the other occassion when I could see Improved Feint being good (aside from those levels when you get only one attack on a full attack anyways) would be to deliver a really good power attack to a high dex opponent. Though again, that's better for a two-handed fighter rather than a two weapon fighter, since the TWF doesn't have as good a power attack and gets more benefit from a full attack action.