Companion Spirit Weapon Enhancements [Archive] - Wizards Community

Companion Spirit Weapon Enhancements [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rironin
04-04-07, 12:01 AM Kind of a strange question, more related to Companion Spirits (from the DMG II) than equipment per se.

My 4 PCs each have a legendary weapon that is sort of growing with them, gaining powers like a legacy weapon but without the feat dependency. They're 4th level now. I thought a novel way to give the weapons new powers could involve a companion spirit that lives within each one, and provides all the normal benefits of a companion spirit. As for costs and values, I'd simply take the XP and gold out of the equation on my own, so they'd never really miss anything.

This would break the rule of one companion spirit per team - they would have 4 companion spirits growing with them for the rest of the campaign. Would having more than one companion spirit make things too crazy? They'd have a plethora of minor magical abilities at all times, but would it be imbalanced? They'd be charged (moneywise and experience wise) for each companion spirit, of course.
Tim4488
04-04-07, 07:23 AM 4 Companion Spirits? o.O

I wouldn't like to imagine such a thing...

How about the same companion spirit rests in each weapon, its spirit-life-force-ectoplasm-thingy is divvied up between them all?

I mean, if each companion spirit has two aspects, you're actually granting them 8 sets of benefits. Including, say, everyone getting Fire, Cold, Electricity and Acid Resistance 5 all the time, just from companion spirits. No, I would vote against multiple companion spirits. It goes against my feel of the flavor, too... why can Bob the Fighter access the spirit in Bill the Wizard's quarterstaff?
BelainDefenderofJerusalem
04-04-07, 10:19 AM just have each spirit effect the wielder.
rironin
04-04-07, 11:04 AM just have each spirit effect the wielder.But many of the benefits are dependent upon the number of team members affected. A team of one member seems odd.It goes against my feel of the flavor, too... why can Bob the Fighter access the spirit in Bill the Wizard's quarterstaff?In this case, the flavor would work well - the weapons were wielded by great heroes who were all on the same team in the past, and worked to stop an evil that's coming about again in the PCs' time. The weapons and their wielders are therefore all related to one another, so I can see the spirits of the legendary heroes behind each weapon, granting the whole group special powers.

Still, I can see how granting both General and Specific characteristics for each weapon would get insane. I think I'll tone it down by giving each weapon one or the other. Specifically, I'm planning on using Lightning, Shadow, Rampart, and Communication - many of the bonuses aren't directly combat related, and serve the flavor well. I suppose I'll charge half the gp and XP cost for each in that case.

Thoughts?
ClementWillowbreaker
04-04-07, 11:50 AM Replace all references to "one companion spirit" with "a cadre of four spirits, dwelling mostly within one character each". Change nothing else. Done.
rironin
04-04-07, 12:39 PM Replace all references to "one companion spirit" with "a cadre of four spirits, dwelling mostly within one character each". Change nothing else. Done.Er, the question was mostly, are companion spirits balanced with their costs, and do those costs scale well if you give a party more than one of them? I know that by changing the wording and houseruling away I can grant them four fully operable companion spirits; I just want to know if anyone who has used companion spirits before thinks they're balanced, and if they think multiple spirits would have an unbalancing effect.
ClementWillowbreaker
04-04-07, 01:46 PM Maybe you missed the, "Change nothing" part. What you want is just fluff. There is no mechanical difference between the existing bonuses of a companion spirit being given by four spirits because you say it does, and the same bonuses being given by one companion spirit.

Just because you have four of something doesn't mean you have four times the benefit.
rironin
04-04-07, 02:48 PM Maybe you missed the, "Change nothing" part. What you want is just fluff. There is no mechanical difference between the existing bonuses of a companion spirit being given by four spirits because you say it does, and the same bonuses being given by one companion spirit.

Just because you have four of something doesn't mean you have four times the benefit.Maybe you missed the entire point of my post. I'm not talking about changing nothing mechanically and just altering the fluff, I'm talking about giving the PCs the benefit of two, or even four separate fully functional companion spirits simultaneously. One companion spirit, with all the powers of a single companion spirit, in EACH weapon, giving the entire party the benefits of that companion spirit. The original idea would've wound up giving them all four General Characteristics and four of the Specific Characteristics that companion spirits can grant. My post is about whether or not the costs (gold and XP) normally associated with one companion spirit will still balance the benefits if you multiply the number of spirits (and similarly multiply the costs).

Now I'm considering toning it down to one characteristic per weapon - three of them Specific Characteristics (Lightning, Shadow, and Rampart) and one of them General (Communication). In total, this will give them more abilities than a single companion spirit could grant. Since the DMG II says that any given team can benefit from only one companion spirit, this change is certainly not just fluff. That is the entire point of my question. If we made the assumption that half the cost of a companion spirit was for the General Characteristic and half was for the Specific Characteristic (which may not necessarily be true), then each weapon's "half spirit" would cost the PCs 150 gp and 150 XP, for a total of 600 gp and 600 XP for the benefits of all 4 "half spirits".

I should add that in my game I impose a hard wealth limit on what kind of equipment the PCs can have in play at any given time, as a function of their experience. This means that the gold cost of the spirits will always impose itself, counting towards their current equipment value. In this way, the power of the spirits will always have a resource cost.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rironin 04-04-07, 12:01 AM	Kind of a strange question, more related to Companion Spirits (from the DMG II) than equipment per se. My 4 PCs each have a legendary weapon that is sort of growing with them, gaining powers like a legacy weapon but without the feat dependency. They're 4th level now. I thought a novel way to give the weapons new powers could involve a companion spirit that lives within each one, and provides all the normal benefits of a companion spirit. As for costs and values, I'd simply take the XP and gold out of the equation on my own, so they'd never really miss anything. This would break the rule of one companion spirit per team - they would have 4 companion spirits growing with them for the rest of the campaign. Would having more than one companion spirit make things too crazy? They'd have a plethora of minor magical abilities at all times, but would it be imbalanced? They'd be charged (moneywise and experience wise) for each companion spirit, of course.
Tim4488 04-04-07, 07:23 AM	4 Companion Spirits? o.O I wouldn't like to imagine such a thing... How about the same companion spirit rests in each weapon, its spirit-life-force-ectoplasm-thingy is divvied up between them all? I mean, if each companion spirit has two aspects, you're actually granting them 8 sets of benefits. Including, say, everyone getting Fire, Cold, Electricity and Acid Resistance 5 all the time, just from companion spirits. No, I would vote against multiple companion spirits. It goes against my feel of the flavor, too... why can Bob the Fighter access the spirit in Bill the Wizard's quarterstaff?
BelainDefenderofJerusalem 04-04-07, 10:19 AM	just have each spirit effect the wielder.
rironin 04-04-07, 11:04 AM	just have each spirit effect the wielder.But many of the benefits are dependent upon the number of team members affected. A team of one member seems odd.It goes against my feel of the flavor, too... why can Bob the Fighter access the spirit in Bill the Wizard's quarterstaff?In this case, the flavor would work well - the weapons were wielded by great heroes who were all on the same team in the past, and worked to stop an evil that's coming about again in the PCs' time. The weapons and their wielders are therefore all related to one another, so I can see the spirits of the legendary heroes behind each weapon, granting the whole group special powers. Still, I can see how granting both General and Specific characteristics for each weapon would get insane. I think I'll tone it down by giving each weapon one or the other. Specifically, I'm planning on using Lightning, Shadow, Rampart, and Communication - many of the bonuses aren't directly combat related, and serve the flavor well. I suppose I'll charge half the gp and XP cost for each in that case. Thoughts?
ClementWillowbreaker 04-04-07, 11:50 AM	Replace all references to "one companion spirit" with "a cadre of four spirits, dwelling mostly within one character each". Change nothing else. Done.
rironin 04-04-07, 12:39 PM	Replace all references to "one companion spirit" with "a cadre of four spirits, dwelling mostly within one character each". Change nothing else. Done.Er, the question was mostly, are companion spirits balanced with their costs, and do those costs scale well if you give a party more than one of them? I know that by changing the wording and houseruling away I can grant them four fully operable companion spirits; I just want to know if anyone who has used companion spirits before thinks they're balanced, and if they think multiple spirits would have an unbalancing effect.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-04-07, 01:46 PM	Maybe you missed the, "Change nothing" part. What you want is just fluff. There is no mechanical difference between the existing bonuses of a companion spirit being given by four spirits because you say it does, and the same bonuses being given by one companion spirit. Just because you have four of something doesn't mean you have four times the benefit.
rironin 04-04-07, 02:48 PM	Maybe you missed the, "Change nothing" part. What you want is just fluff. There is no mechanical difference between the existing bonuses of a companion spirit being given by four spirits because you say it does, and the same bonuses being given by one companion spirit. Just because you have four of something doesn't mean you have four times the benefit.Maybe you missed the entire point of my post. I'm not talking about changing nothing mechanically and just altering the fluff, I'm talking about giving the PCs the benefit of two, or even four separate fully functional companion spirits simultaneously. One companion spirit, with all the powers of a single companion spirit, in EACH weapon, giving the entire party the benefits of that companion spirit. The original idea would've wound up giving them all four General Characteristics and four of the Specific Characteristics that companion spirits can grant. My post is about whether or not the costs (gold and XP) normally associated with one companion spirit will still balance the benefits if you multiply the number of spirits (and similarly multiply the costs). Now I'm considering toning it down to one characteristic per weapon - three of them Specific Characteristics (Lightning, Shadow, and Rampart) and one of them General (Communication). In total, this will give them more abilities than a single companion spirit could grant. Since the DMG II says that any given team can benefit from only one companion spirit, this change is certainly not just fluff. That is the entire point of my question. If we made the assumption that half the cost of a companion spirit was for the General Characteristic and half was for the Specific Characteristic (which may not necessarily be true), then each weapon's "half spirit" would cost the PCs 150 gp and 150 XP, for a total of 600 gp and 600 XP for the benefits of all 4 "half spirits". I should add that in my game I impose a hard wealth limit on what kind of equipment the PCs can have in play at any given time, as a function of their experience. This means that the gold cost of the spirits will always impose itself, counting towards their current equipment value. In this way, the power of the spirits will always have a resource cost.