Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zombayz1 06-03-07, 10:02 PM	This is just a comparison of Greataxe and Greatsword damage, just for the hell of it. Greataxe, +0 damage bonus 78 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword, +0 damage bonus 91 damage average per 20 attacks Greataxe, +1 damage bonus 90 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword, +1 damage bonus 104 damage average per 20 attacks Greataxe, +2 damage bonus 102 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword,+2 damage bonus 117 damage average per 20 attacks Greataxe, +3 damage bonus 114 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword, +3 damage bonus 130 damage average per 20 attacks Greataxe, +4 damage bonus 124 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword, +4 damage bonus 143 damage average per 20 attacks Greataxe, +5 damage bonus 136 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword, +5 damage bonus 156 damage average per 20 attacks In the end, as you can see, the multiple smaller dice and higher crit range beat the single lower die and high crit multiplier.
SkyOdin 06-04-07, 04:06 AM	I would like to see how you came up with these numbers. Your math is not clear, since you just gave us your results. However, it seems that you are assuming that every attack hits. In an actual campaign, this is not necessarily the case. You are also assuming no strength modifier, which would affect the relative power of the criticals significantly. Therefore, I am not certain your numbers as they are currently presented actually prove anything.
Crimson_Concerto 06-04-07, 04:18 AM	I would like to see how you came up with these numbers. Your math is not clear, since you just gave us your results. However, it seems that you are assuming that every attack hits. In an actual campaign, this is not necessarily the case. You are also assuming no strength modifier, which would affect the relative power of the criticals significantly. Therefore, I am not certain your numbers as they are currently presented actually prove anything. I agree.
Cthulhu3125 06-04-07, 05:20 AM	This is just a comparison of Greataxe and Greatsword damage, just for the hell of it. ... Greatsword, +0 damage bonus 91 damage average per 20 attacks ... I make it to be 18*7+2*14 if every attack hits, for 154 damage.
Bhaal006 06-04-07, 05:53 AM	D&D doesn't seem to reflect the fact that the Axe is just the best Damn weapon ever concieved.
Issabella 06-04-07, 06:04 AM	mine is less scientific, I have lucky d10's but no lucky d12's so great sword it is! :)
Armoracia Rusticana 06-04-07, 06:39 AM	Technically, 2d6 has higher mean result than d12. So OP is right. In his math I can suggest calculations of damage per 20 successfull hits with automatically confirmed crits (too lazy to make myself sure).
El_Machinae 06-04-07, 07:32 AM	mine is less scientific, I have lucky d10's but no lucky d12's so great sword it is! :) I avoid d8s because I get sad when they roll less than a 6. I think "jeez, I could have rolled this on d6s!"
Knightblde 06-04-07, 10:08 AM	I avoid d8s because I get sad when they roll less than a 6. I think "jeez, I could have rolled this on d6s!" How do you handle rolling a 6 on a d20?
BW0222 06-04-07, 02:47 PM	Zombayz1, Numbers like this require at least an explaination of how you calculated them. And unfortunately, such numbers rarely tell you that much since real combats have far more variables involved that most calculations take into considering -- various ACs, AoOs, cleaving, number of attacks limited due to movement, flanking, power attacking, improved critical, facing creatures with DR, sneak attack, flaming/frosting/shocking weapons, helpless folks, massive damage rules, hitting objects, etc. All of which may favor one weapon over another. Examples...a great axe is likely less useful at say 1st or 2nd-level, since few creatures actually have more than say 15hp+. On the flip side, at higher levels, a great axe might be more useful against a werewolf with DR 15 -- as even a greatsword crit might not actually get through it. i.e. in that case it is might be better to crit half as often but get more damage. There is also the "in game" effective of certain actions. If you critical hit something in the first few rounds of combat with a great axe it may alter the flow or outcome of the combat itself -- force the creature to pull back, force them to heal, force others to aid it, possibily even force a surrender, etc. This is nothing like seeing a cleric hold person one BBEG and the half-orc barbarian coup-de-grac him with a full power attack. One round and suddenly the other BBEGs are thinking about bailing.
SilverFoxKnows 06-04-07, 06:01 PM	Our party's Fighter uses a greatsword, my Barbarian uses a Dwarven waraxe (not quite a greataxe but close enough for this). I have never kept track of hits vs. damage over the course of the campaign (do you?) so I can't tell you EXACTLY how much of an egde he may have over me. Sure he crits more often but when I crit it tends to be pretty spectacular. I didn't start playing D&D to do long math equasions so as long as it's within a few points over the course of a fight I'll take the weapon that fits with the character concept. YMMV
Optimator 06-04-07, 06:03 PM	Adopt a D12! Use the Greataxe anyway!
jaelis 06-04-07, 06:10 PM	This is just a comparison of Greataxe and Greatsword damage, just for the hell of it. Whatever you did, it is incorrect. The damage difference between a greataxe and greatsword is static, and doesn't depend on how much bonus damage you have. (With the one exception of when you need to roll a 20 to hit, in which case the greataxe is better.)
Salla 06-04-07, 06:23 PM	Technically, 2d6 has higher mean result than d12. And this is why my heavy-fighter guys use the Greatsword. :)
Mighty_Draco 06-04-07, 06:37 PM	The avarage roll on a d6 is 3.5 and the avarage roll of a d12 is 6.5 That means greatswords avarage about .5 higher damage then great axes excluding critical hits and other modifiers. As for crits, they are about even. Let's say you have two warriors, one wielding a great axe and one a great sword. If they both roll a natural 19 followed by a 20, they will do about the same overall damage as long as they have the same modifiers. (x1 + x3 and x2 + x2) The great axe takes the advantage if your opponent has DR.
Nercrominionicon 06-04-07, 08:02 PM	Ignore, double post
Nercrominionicon 06-04-07, 08:03 PM	You dumbass! I see what you were TRYING to do, but you messed up pretty damned harsh. Here's the formula I THINK he was trying to use: Greataxe: (6.5+bonus)*12(9 attacks hit, 1 x3 crit assumed to auto suceed)=Average per 20 attacks Greatsword: (7+bonus)*12(8 attacks hit, 2 x2 crits assumed to auto suceed)= average per 20 attacks. So, next time you decide to forget basic math, at least do it somewhere that we can't see, eh?
Nephlite 06-04-07, 09:16 PM	This is just a comparison of Greataxe and Greatsword damage, just for the hell of it. Greataxe, +0 damage bonus 78 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword, +0 damage bonus 91 damage average per 20 attacks Hmm, the math is wrong. Plus, attacks do not matter hits do. Unless, you mean one is a cit. Greataxe, +0 damage bonus 65+58.5 + 19.5 (the crit) damage average per 20 hits =143 Greatsword, +0 damage bonus 70+63+14 damage average per 20 hits=147 Greataxe, +5 damage bonus 136 damage average per 20 attacks Greatsword, +5 damage bonus 156 damage average per 20 attacks Again, using averages. Greataxe, +5 damage bonus 115+ 103.5+ 34.5 damage average per 20 hits=253 Greatsword, +5 damage bonus 120+108+21 damage average per 20 hits=252 Apparently, the greataxe is better by 1 point. I'm surprised...granted, the Greatsword would probably crit more often messinh with results. In the end, as you can see, the multiple smaller dice and higher crit range beat the single lower die and high crit multiplier. Your math isn't based on averages...what is it based on? 2d6=7 average 1d12=6.5
Rhyvurg 06-05-07, 02:15 AM	Well, disregarding wether or not an attack hits and any bonuses to damage, a greataxe will do 1-12 damage on a standard hit, and 3-36 on a crit, witch has a 5% chance of happening. A greatsword will do 2-12 on a standard hit and 4-24 on a crit, wich has a 10% chance of happening. I'd go with the sword, myself.
Mighty_Draco 06-05-07, 05:26 PM	I've been over this pretty extensively actually. Which weapon is better varies a lot depending on the circumstances. One common mistake is that people compare the two x2 crits of the greatsword to the one x3 crit of the greataxe. The problem is that you're comparing two hits to one. The correct way of comparing the crits would be comparing one crit and one noncrit of the greataxe (x3+x1=x4) to the two crits of the greatsword (x2+x2=x4). The advantage of the greatsword in damage is very slim and can be lost easily. Here's a scenario. Your opponent has DR 15. Let's say your str is 18. Which weapon do you want? The greataxe will do d12 + 6 and the sword does 2d6 + 6. The more dice you roll, the closer you get to the mean. The axe has a 1/4 chance of dealing damage. It gets a bit more complicated with the sword (1/36 + 2/36 + 4/36 = 7/36 ≈ 19.4%). Which shows that the axe has a higher chance of dealing damage then a sword against this foe. The general rule is that when the odds are against you dealing damage or you want to have a higher chance of doing max damage, you go for the axe, if the odds are in your favor then you want to use the great sword.
neostrider 06-05-07, 06:40 PM	The way I see it, its a comparison of getting an occasion heavy hit against several moderate hits. Greataxe + power attack = lots of 50+ damage attacks calling for fortitude saves to live Either weapon, with improved crit and power attack would be awesome weapons, its just a matter of how you want to distribute your damage. i'd personally go for the greataxe because of DR and the chance of instakills. Greatsword is a good runner up because the sheer damage dealing potential of 4/20 crits is a beautiful thing.
Drachasor 06-05-07, 09:16 PM	The comparison is pretty easy. The Great Sword averages 7 damage per hit. On two numbers (19 and 20) it does double damage. The Great Axe averages 6.5 damage per hit. On one number it does triple damage. Note that the Great Sword has more consistent damage, often dealing around average. 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 are the numbers that come up about two-thirds of the time. In comparison, the Great Axe is more random with its damage, a 1 is as likely as a 7 (and 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 compose just about 41% of the spread). So it is easier to do high damage with the Axe, but also easier to do low damage. If you need a 20 to hit, then the Great Axe is better, because it crits better. If your minimum number to hit is 19 or less, then both of them average the same "multiplier" from critting. The Axe will crit on a 20 and do another 2 hits worth of damage beyond a normal hit (e.g. the x3 -> 1 normal hit + 2 more normal hits). The Great Sword will crit on a 19 or 20, doing an extra hit worth of damage. In general then, when 19s or 20s are rolled, the crit bonus is about the same (2 extra hits). Of course, the GS will get a critical more consistently, especially with improved critical. The GA will get a crit less often. Overall the GS is much better from a player perspective. The more consistent the damage, the more you can count on it. Sure, the Axe is better against high DR IF you roll a 20 and confirm, but that just doesn't happen that often and you can't count on it happening in any given situation. Heck, you can't count on the GS's crits that much either, but they are twice as common (so a good deal more common than the GA). So in short you can count on the GS to deliver consistent performance that averages better than the GA (average damage is slightly higher than GA and does peak damage more often). That's useful in battle since you can plan on it a bit more. If the GA did 2d6 damage and the GS did 1d12, then you'd have a bit more of a contest on your hands. As it is now though, the GS is just a better weapon almost all the time. -Drachasor